[ESPN]Bosh's wish list of teams[Updated: Bosh agent claims list not complete]

Basically, Bosh wants to play with a great perimeter player (e.g., James, Kobe, or Wade). I think he is doing a right thing.

 

Chris Bosh chrisbosh

I saw that i supposedly had a " top 5" yesterday. Here's something more accurate. http://j.mp/cWS0SV

boshs twitter page

 

So many put back dunks with Jordan Hill.

 

Yeah i just saw his tweet as well. Why don't we all just wait for July. All this May free agency talk is giving me a major migrane.

 

err... Migraine.

 

Long story short, if you want Bosh, you must get wade first.


this with a grain of salt, but I know a lady that has a "source'. She has been right on alot of things. She says there either is/was a deal in place recently for Yao for Wade. Supposidly Riley likes Yao, and I guess the only way this works, is 2 fold,

1.Wades best friend Bosh, tells Wade hes being traded to Houston, Wade in turn tells Riley he's leaving, thus forcing Riley hand to trade, and Riley accepts Yao

2.wade just flat out says "im signing with chicago" and Riley has a choice between deng or yao, and chooses yao.

If we get Wade this way, this will LURE bosh. Im not a Yao hater,but this is what i was told. Her source, is supposidly someone that sits in a certain suite and can hear rumors or live execs.

From all the rumors, gathered, it looks like Wade and Bosh want to end up on the same team. They are getting together for a meeting. Wades hometown is Chicago, they probably want to go there,

But thats why they cant do anything, because Lebron might go there. If Lebron doesnt goto Chicago, look for wade to sign there and bosh to be traded there. HowEVER, its looking stronger and stronger that lebron has narrowed his list to chicago(top choice) or nets(billionaire).

I could see lebron going to chicago, then bosh signing with wade in miami, or somehow we convince wade and bosh to come to houston.

 

For the nth time... Morey will not trade Yao "Cash Cow" Ming!

Billions of chinese = moolah

 

I feel the same way. I want to see us increase our team talent in a big way, but I'd rather see the increase come at SF. Also, any very good player, such as we could get from, say, a #4 pick.

A high pick, a good MLE signing at any position, and a decent S&T would thrill me for the summer. Plus something magical at the trading deadline...

 

interesting chapman. thanks for posting it. it shall be a whirlwind of here and there until it finally happens lol

 

I like Bosh, but he can't guard opposing C's.
He's doesn't have enough weight or strength to hold them. He weighs the same as Chuck Hayes, but his center of gravity is much higher. It makes it much harder for him to hold his position. That's why he has a rep of being poor defensive player. Neither him or Bargnani could handle defending opposing C's.

Bosh's defense will be better, if he gets to play with a real center like Camby, Bogut or Yao.

 

So it isnt really over till the Fat Man sings (Morey isnt really all that fat but it kinda fit)....

 

He sure is loving the attention!

 

Before I respond to your post, I'd like to point out that I NEVER said Bosh wasn't better than Scola or Bosh<Scola or whatever inequality sign you want to throw out there. If you would have took time like I did to answer the original legitimate question I had rather than scoff it off as being stupid, maybe you could have seen that. Rather than be a trigger happy poster who dismisses a legitimate question asked from a member who's been here as long as you, how about you actually try and convince me otherwise?

If you think what I'm posting is stupid, click the spoiler button for the cliff's notes.

Why can't per 36 minutes been used? What's a disadvantage of using it when both Bosh and Scola are in the starting line up?

1. Bosh's career minutes per game average is right at 37, which is damn close to 36 is it not? So by me using PER 36 Min stats for Bosh isn't taking anything away from him. If he has great stats, careerwise, his PER 36 Min stats won't suffer much, if any.

2. Is using PER 36 stats helping or skewing Scola's stats? I don't think it sets up Scola for a whopping advantage that you make it out to be considering he's playing 30+ minutes a night. This isn't taking a small sample size (i.e. Landry's first or second year stats where he played, what, 14 mins a game?). But if you want to take raw numbers, here goes:

Bosh's last two seasons:

Off. rpg: 2.85 per game
Def. rpg: 7.55 per game

Total: 10.4 per game

Scola's last two seasons:

Off. rpg: 2.25 per game
Def. rpg: 6.4 per game

Total: 8.67 per game

Bosh's rebounding average looks all good and dandy but what does it look like when you take their numbers and factor in their avg. min a game?

Bosh's last two seasons:

10.4 rpg @ 37 min a game = .28 rebounds per minute on the floor

Scola's last two seasons

8.67 rpg @ 31.45 min a game = .2756 rebounds per minute on the floor

So if you don't want to use PER 36 minutes, that's fine. But if you are going to want to use raw numbers, at least factor in the time that either player are on the floor and what they actually do on the floor

As for me "cherry-picking stats", isn't rebounding important at the power forward position? We b**** and moan that Amare isn't a good power forward not only because his defense sucks BUT also because he can't rebound. I put rebounding FIRST is because that's what the Rockets NEED at the 4 spot along with scoring. Yao's a good rebounder but he needs a right hand man that can get in there and get rebounds. THAT's why I picked rebounding first.

And don't try to discredit my post by saying I'm ignoring "other stats". I presented:

rebounding
blocked shots
FG%
FT%

How am I manipulating the stats? I did nothing but present data that anyone can find and come up with their own conclusion. I'm sorry to have broken the news to you that Bosh might be an All-Star but he's not exponentially better than Scola, especially considering how he's going to get paid twice or three times as much.

Again, where did I state in ANY post that I thought Bosh wasn't the better player? Please address that first............................can't find it? Well golly gee.

But I'll play along with this. You're RIGHT. True Shooting percentage is right next to FG%. But tell me this: are those numbers that you're using strictly from this year's production alone, or are they career averages, or are they averages from the past, say, 2-3 seasons? The reason why I ask is because I don't want anyone here to accuse you of cherry picking stats. I mean, if I took the average TS% from the past two seasons for each player (why the past 2 seasons? Because it leaves out Bosh's first two seasons to get acclimated with the the NBA game as well as those seasons featuring Scola as a starter), Bosh's TS% is 58% and Scola's is 56%. That "huge" difference just got chopped in half but hey I guess I'm in the wrong here too.

Nonetheless, Bosh's TS% is higher than Scola's because he gets to the line. I can't deny that and I don't plan to. And you're also correct that Morey has discussed TS% as a stat that he covets so I can't say anything else here. Maybe a 2%-4% advantage in TS% IS enough to justify max contract money.

I don't know why or how McGrady got into this so I'll leave that part alone. Jordan Hill...hmm..you want to compare Jordan Hill's per 36 to Scola's because why again? Oh, right, because it's to try and debunk why I used per 36 to compare Scola and Bosh, players who actually play near the 36 min cap.

How clear could I have been?

Blocks: Bosh wins hands down here. Bosh's one block a game will always beat Scola's .2 blocks a game any way you cut it.

I mean, what else is there to say? Blocks are blocks. Until they have statistical measures for changing shots and/or challenging shots, a block is a block.

One of the most well-known stat guru, Dave Berri, had this to say:

"Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA played does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots." link here

Am I saying Bosh is an inefficient scorer? Absolutely not. His FG% (and TS% ) speaks for themselves. However, if Berri's logic holds true, a player that takes about 17 shots and twice as many FTs like Bosh does every night has a better chance to raise his PER value than a player that wasn't even the focal point of an offense on most nights for his team.

Go to that link and you can see that a PER of 25 is nothing to scoff at. It's considered a "weak MVP candidate" while Scola's 17 PER is between a 2nd and 3rd option. Given that Bosh was the primary/best player on his Raptors team (that featured ZERO players with a PER higher than 15.5 aka "pretty good player"), there is reason to believe that moving to a team that has legitimate scoring options in Yao, KMart, and Brooks would lower his FGAs and touches...which would drop his PER a bit wouldn't it?

"B-b-but Scola got a PER of 17 without Yao! That means when Yao comes back Scola is going to be trash!"

Scola had a PER rating of 17 last season playing alongside Yao as well.

If anything, last year's top Rockets had pretty good PER if you want to focus on that stat:

Scola 17.2
Kmart 17.1
Brooks 16
Lowry 15.5

Yao has never had a PER lower than 20 but lets just pencil him in at 19.

Yao: 19
Scola: 17 (since he had the same rating with and without Yao)

Martin: 17.1 (a modest projection since he's been hovering around 19 as a King)
Brooks: 14 (We'll drop it a couple of points to factor in Yao's return)

Where's the SF position? Ariza had a PER rating of about 13 last year and Shane has been staying constant at 11 the past 3 seasons. THIS is where the Rockets need to upgrade IMO. If they are going to throw ridiculous money at, I rather see Morey and the Rockets throw money to upgrade the 3 spot.

Spoiler

This is a long-winded post but here's the cliff's notes:

1. I NEVER said Bosh wasn't a better player than Scola
2. I NEVER said Scola was a better player than Bosh
3. I posted my question hoping that someone will actually give me intelligent discussion on why Bosh is worth a 7 year Max contract deal when our power forward is serviceable (or, according to PER, more than serviceable).
4. I just want someone to tell me why everyone is going gaga over a player like Bosh, who has pretty much made it known that he would rather go be a sidekick to LeBron or Wade than actually leading his own team, which is something that many here thinks he actually wants to do.

If you can't understand those 4 things, then I really don't have anything else to say other than "can someone else give me good reasons without being an ass?"

 

Well, this is the quote I responded to.

And I said that Bosh can do things better than Scola. To which you just went off due to my incredible supposed wrongness... If you agree that Bosh is simply a superior player to Scola, then we agree. Bosh can do more things than Scola because he is simply a superior player. Just like Yao give the Rockets more than Hayes because he's better. Or Brooks give more to the Rockets than Alston because he's better.

See, Morey's plan is to get better player(s). Getting better player -> More talent -> Greater chance at a championship. That's the logic, at least. And Bosh is that "better player", a point you seem to agree. Hence, he's good for us, eh?

 

At first you said $9 mil, then you lowered it to $8m/yr like Varejao. Keep going lower and you will reach the right value.

Varejao got a contract starting at $5mil.

Anderson Varejao
2007-08 $5,356,000
2008-09 $5,784,480
2009-10 $6,300,000

 

The closer you get to the top, of NBA talent, the more incremental the improvements become, both for the players and to the team. Bosh is better than Scola, but some don't think the gap is large enough to justify his cost, but that's how it works in the NBA. Those tiny improvements are what separate championship players from all star players.

.

 

Using a career average compared to Scola is crap too. They both have had short careers. Bosh has improved more than Scola though. If you look at the last 2 years compared to Scola's last 2 years. It's more points, more rebounds, more fouls on the opponents, more free throws.

Scola has gotten fewer rebounds, a lower fg% compared to last year.
Bosh has improved his scoring to 24 pts per 36 min compared to last year. He's up to 10.8 rb/36 min this year. His FG% is up to 51.9%. He can actually block a shot every game, where Scola averages 0.4 per 36 min.

There is a big difference between a 24pt scorer and a 16 pt scorer. That's a 50% difference.

 

Nice to see you know your numbers, can you tell me what varejao earned in 1999???

2009/10 - $6,300,000
2010/11 - $7,000,000
2011/12 - $7,700,000
2012/13 - $8,400,000
2013/14 - $9,100,000
2014/15 - $9,800,000

I was talking about last contract extension for people that didn't understood my point, you "should not hate 8M-9M on the bench, it is just burning cap space, pretending we get a starting PF

 

In 2 words:

**** BOSH


Develop Hill and let Scola start = infinitely > Bosh

 

You say you want to have an inteligent conversation, and then you base you player avaluation in stats

Correct me if i am wrong, Landrys PER when he was a Houston wasn't top 20 in the league??? I don't know in wich year but i guess we had all star material without knowing and paying 2M a year

In fact player skills/hard work are more important then stats, one example??? Dou you remember battier beiyng the best wing defender in the league, getting on kobes nervs in the playoffs, and shuting down LBJ with 0 assists in the first time of his career??? Battier was great right.... go and see his PER??? lololol

You must be one of those who say LBJ is one of the best of all time because of those gigantic all around stats he puts in, not evaluating the skill, but evaluating boxscores

Is there a defined best PF in the league??? There are maybe 5 that stand out, and Bosh is one of those

Just look at the Celtics when you want big individual stats.......loooool