That is what people forget, we had a string of years going to the playoffs, 2 NLCS appearances not that long ago and a trip to the World Series. A crappy owner gets you all that? Really? The bottome line is every team gets to a point when they have to stop and reload. We are at that point. Not sure how long it is going to last, but that is where we are at now.
this argument cracks me up. tim purpura was our gm when we went to the world series. i guess we can deduce that he's a great gm and the best in our franchise's history. drayton has never had to deal with a sinking ship like this, and he is incapable of dealing with it or handling it properly. he had the comfort of bags and biggio in their prime, and rock solid pitching that he was able to retain for a long stretch. now his "win now" mentality has left us with an empty farm system, the worst pitching staff in baseball, and a sloppy lineup, and his solution is to continue acquiring lousy pitching, when the season is 2/3 over and any sane owner would see the writing on the wall, SELL what assets you can, and quit attempting to dupe fans into thinking there is any hope left this year. quit talking about the past.
No I won't suggest that Purpura was a great GM. Not at all. He had just stepped into the job. That team wasn't his. But comparing that to an owner who has been here 15 years is nonsensical. It's apples and coat hangers. He had the comfort of Bigs and Bags sure...but he paid for it. He kept those guys here. He kept Hunsicker around for 9-10 years. He fostered environments they didn't want to leave. And he paid players to support them and to win. And they won a whole helluva lot. No one complained about his "win now" mentality when we were winning. And in fact, many people here b****ed he wasn't "win now" enough. I'm ok with being critical of Drayton...if he's the one initiating a move like this for Wolf, then I'm absolutely critical of it. But I think you can't forget the context entirely when doing so.
Now he is just torturing us. It is going to be painful for us Astros fans for a while. So how long would it take to turn this thing around if Dreighton comes to his senses in the off-season?
[/cardpire's argument] On the possibility of this deal going down, I will say that the Astros brass has officially become delusional. Unless it's a cash deal for Wolf, there is no legit reason to make this trade. They are going no where fast with the current state of the 40 man roster and beyond. They need to face the fact that it's time to rebuild.
i would agree. the 2000 season was a nightmare - but it was one season. he's certainly never had to deal with a team crumbling over the course of 3 seasons... wait... you just said - what was it? here, let's see if i can find it - oh yeah: drayton has never had to deal with a sinking ship like this - so how do you know he's incapable of dealing with it or handling it properly if he's never, you know - dealt with or handled it before? i don't understand the wolf pursuit; perhaps they're blowing PR smoke, hoping fans buy into this silly idea that the season is salvageable. but i think a lot of people forget what it's like to completely rebuild - even if everything goes exactly as planned (and it NEVER does), i can't imagine the astros being competitive again until, at the very earliest, 2011. that could accelerate (somewhat) if they got great value for oswalt (who's on the DL), berkman (who's 31), lee (who's owed $80M), tejada (who sucks and is owed close to $20M), valverde (who sucks)... but, i have my doubts (obviously). right now, they have one guy to build around – hunter pence - and he may wind up being nothing more than a fine (but not great) baseball player. so, they’d need to turn those vets into 4-5 top, close to sure thing prospects and i don’t think that group is capable of fetching that. regardless, even with a strong ROI, as we've seen this year with bourn and towles - hell, even pence - kids are kids for a reason and you never know. so i can see drayton's point of view: he has three very good to great players, all around the same age. it's far easier (and quicker) to try and build around them than it is to scrap everything and start from scratch. because the next berkman/oswalt is nowhere in sight. you don't need 8 all-stars in your everyday line-up and 5 cy young candidates in your rotation. if they brought wolf over and extended him, if they were able to land a ben sheets (or two) on the open market... there's no reason this team can't be competitive next season.
LOL. yeah, all we need is a couple Ben Sheets and we should compete next season. no sweat! seeing as how easy that will be to acquire, i'm gonna go ahead and throw adding on a couple albert pujolses into the pot, and maybe if uncle drayton's feelin' spicy, he can nab an a-rod, or, at least a miggy cabrera on top of that. problem solved! Ric for GM!
I don't think Ric said it would be easy to acquire a Ben Sheets...I think he said it would be easier to attract quality free agent pitchers to compete than it would be to blow up the entire team and start new with unproven commodities.
Does Drayton know he's a moron? Perhaps we could all send him some convincing pages of this thread? Seriously. I guess this is what it's like to have Drayton as your owner. It's a good thing at times because lately Drayton has shelled out the money for players here. Yet, you can't possibly think we don't need to rebuild our farm system and lace em up for the year in terms of dealing away for prospects and young players. FireDrayton.com!
well, there'll be at least one ben sheets available this winter for sure.... my point is that signing two ben sheets is far easier than trading for/drafting, developing, etc., two ben sheets, as well as a roy oswalt, a lance berkman, a carlos lee...
also, i'm not endorsing that approach, per se. i was merely trying to illustrate that while in theory, a fresh start with promising prospects sounds great, the reality is often a long, frustrating disappointment. and i think drayton likely understands that and is trying to be agressive and proactive and not subject us to what is a crapshoot. in a lot of ways, it's an admirable approach.
Randy Wolf sucks, but not as bad as Ed Wade. Philly fans are having a field day watching Wade destroy another MLB franchise. I wish Tillman Fertitta or some Oil company CEO would buy the Stros. It's clear as day that Drayton wants to patchwork rather than rebuild, and that rarely works.
It hasn't? His inexcusable lack of understanding of the mlb arbitration system directly led to the dumping of Caminiti and Finley in 1994. Losing two mvp candidates as they entered their primes was a huge blow to the Astros' title chances in the 1990s. It was also completely avoidable if McLane was aware of the salary hikes associated with the arbitration system. McLane at times gets a bad rap in regard to his willingness to spend. He clearly shown that he is willing to open the purse string for a big name player (or to keep a franchise player intown). But, at the same time, you are giving him too much credit here. The team he bought in 1992 was absolutely stacked in talent. On the mlb roster they has 10 future allstars (all but one in their 20s), 2 young hall of famers, 2 future mvps and a talented farm system. The previous administration's late 1980's drafting, scouting, and rebuilding (trading Glenn Davis, trading Larry Anderson, going young, etc) probably deserves more credit for the Astros' 1990's success than McLane does. The Baltimore Orioles in the 1990 were good too. That didn't stop them from entering a decade + long struggle. It is not that the Astros are in danger of becoming the late 1990's Orioles. They already are them. The sooner they realize that, the sooner they can take step to pick themselves back up and avoid what has happened to the Orioles for the last decade.
i tend to defend organizational moves a lot of times, saying you need to look at the other side and this or that.. but holy crap, not Wolf of all people. On top everything everyone has said, how about the season he's had? He's had almost all of his good starts in the spacious confines of Petco.. and he's gotten rocked more times than not of late. Coming here, his ERA would shoot up even higher.. please no. From a broader sense, I endorse selling but realize that probably won't happen here. But you would think Drayton could work with a "half-sell" where you don't completely blow up the team, but sell a few parts for a "rebuild on the fly" type project..
thank you. thank you. thank you. this post should be made a sticky for the rest of eternity. well done, sir.
1. I guess I'd be a lot more concerned about who we dumped in 1994 if we weren't so competitive from that point on. This franchise was under very different financial constraints in 1994, a few years removed from receivership, than it is now. But 6 years after he bought the team, the franchise was in the playoffs as a division winner for 3 straight years...and went back to the playoffs in the early to mid 2000s. By the time they made the World Series and NCLS, we were 12 and 13 years into his tenure here as owner. Very difficult for me to credit the authors of the Glenn Davis trade with that. 2. The Montreal Expos were stacked with talent, too. The A's have been stacked with talent. The Orioles have been stacked with talent. The key is keeping that talent. Virtually every organization has had lots of good talent run through their system. The Astros converted it to wins. 3. No owner picks the talent. They pay to keep it around and to develop it. 4. I'm not saying McLane is perfect. And I'm torn as to what I'd do if I were him right now. But again, this criticism him for wanting to win sooner rather than later is beyond silly....and is the flip side of a coin that's been argued against him (namely, that he doesn't care about winning) over and over in these forums.
