Maggette - .0558, not too great. However, I generally do like Maggette on the Rockets because he draws so many freaking fouls so I'm with DD on Maggette . I actually really wanted him over Artest last summer.
so based on that the numbers do seem to lie since artest is shown to be by far the best out of those guys.
This is surprising to me too, but if you think about it, it makes sense. Artest rarely turns it over handling the ball because when he "handles" the ball he backs down to get near the basket or chucks it up before the defender applies pressure. He's an interesting player to say the least. To be fair, Artest has way more "passing" turnovers than any of the players on that list.
Weren't Cleveland and L.A. offering full MLE as well? That seems to validate that we're not really overpaying. I don't think we're getting a bargain, either, but a good defensive player that's solid offensively for the MLE sounds about right.
I don't buy it, but I'll play along. How was Morey going to offer him one and have the full MLE to use on a MLE worthy player? Wafer clearly doesn't fit that description. If a big man was the target, like Gortat, the MLE was needed to have a good chance at getting him, or other options. If he split the MLE to sign Wafer to a "reasonable 2 year deal," he loses the full MLE as an option. For Von freakin' Wafer. All this has been hashed and rehashed. By signing Ariza, it frees Morey to trade Battier if the right deal presents itself, while getting a much younger player, who's proven himself to be clutch during the playoffs and has some serious skills. Now, or at the deadline. Why should Morey tie his hands by signing Wafer with part of the MLE? In retrospect, we shouldn't have signed Barry to his deal, which would have allowed us to use that option on Wafer, if they even want him after his antics during the freakin' playoffs, but that option is gone until next year. Wafer should sign the minimum and stay on his best behavior, while working on his decision making, his defense, and his level of maturity. I like the guy. You, in my opinion, like him too much. That's OK. Someone could say I feel that way about Scola. I just think you are going a bit overboard.
Actually, now that I think about it, it has to do with the fact that Artest takes a ton of assisted jumpers which has nothing to do with ball handling... Let me adjust for this and make a more comprehensive list and I'll maybe make another thread.
Look more closely, Ariza needs guys who can create for him, he is not a guy that can go and get his own, or get shots for others. He is Battier junior, one is fine, two is a weakness on offense. DD
Again, please refer to this thread: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=4623487#post4623487 I'm really getting annoyed by people comparing Ariza to Battier. Ariza uses 68% more possessions than Battier, drives to the basket about twice as much, and converts at a higher rate. Comparing Ariza's offense to Battier's is like comparing is like comparing Chuck Hayes' and Scola's offense.
the best I could find is this site...I think KevC must have did his own calculations from the stats on this site to come to the per 36 min stats. http://www.82games.com/0809/08LAL7.HTM
Ariza is not as good as Von at creating. Ariza is more on the level of Battier since they both spot up for 3's. I hope Morey knows what he is doing with this but we overpaid for Ariza when we could have Von who can create his own shot. Artest even said Von will average 20 ppg in this league. We just can't have 2 Battiers on offense. DD
Stats can be very misleading...Shannon Anderson was a good STAT guy because he fit in at Utah and not here. Ariza had no one paying attention to him at all, and was able to thrive, do you think he can make the leap to the number 2 or 3 option? Where teams prepare for him? I don't think he has enough game, and there is a REASON he was a 2nd round pick, he has major holes in his game. Primarily dribbling the basketball.... DD
This is almost totally wrong. Ariza is pretty much the opposite of Battier on offense. He is not a great outside shooter, but he is extremely efficient around the basket. He is also great on the fastbreak. Finishing and transition are his strengths, opposite of Battier. You are right on one thing, he doesn't seem to create much. But then he really hasn't had the chance on a team with Kobe and Odom that runs the triangle offense. here is Hollinger on Ariza: Ariza is outstanding around the basket, ranking second among small forwards in free-throw rate, eighth in rebound rate, and fourth in field-goal percentage. He shot 67.1 percent in the immediate basket area last year and 61.3 percent the year before, so clearly he can finish at the rim. And he unexpectedly made a sharp improvement in his assist and turnover ratios, ranking 10th among small forwards in pure point rating. Ariza has one glaring weakness -- he can't shoot. He's made nine 3-pointers in his career and shoots 64.5 percent from the line, and that makes coaches reluctant to spot him minutes as a perimeter player. Offensively, Ariza isn't a shooter but is a terror in transition, where he can fly up the wings to get dunks. He's also an active player off the ball who can find buckets off of other players' penetration or take it to the bucket himself on occasion. The only problem with the latter scenario is that his defender is usually playing 10 feet off of him.
Shandon Anderson actually had a better season his 1st year with the Rockets than he did the last year at Utah from the stats I look at (neither look as good as Ariza's last year). Stats are only misleading if you look at it with an agenda. DD, you're a very insightful poster but sometimes it seems like you make the mistake of your opinion distorting reality by simply dismissing objective evidence.
Overpaid for Ariza? I don't think so. It certainly wasn't a bargain like Scola's contract in any sense by its a good price we paid for him. Considering he was wanting something like 8 million per year from the Lakers before the Lakers told his agent to **** off and go find a offer in the market anything close to that I reckon we got him at a really good price. LAL and CLE were also offering him the same amount and he chose us. It shows his market value is worth AT LEAST this. We certainly weren't the only ones willing to pay the price. Its great how we are going to have his prime years with us unlike some other MLE contracts like Posey who New Orleans were never going to see any improvement from. Ariza has the chance to improve into a solid two-way starter. Maybe not as good as Ron Artest but certainly he can come close to that. Is it opening day yet? Of course we can't have Battier and Ariza playing at the same time. I'm sure Morey hasn't finished dealing and wheeling yet. Probably Battier's be gone before opening day for sure. Can Von defend? Can he create FOR OTHERS? Can he contribute in any other way than scoring?
you usually make alot of sense but still don't your where the concern is. ariza as a player will fit into the schemes of many different teams. it has nothing to do with yao and his status because we are not signing a max contract guy. he is only a MLE guy. there are only a hand full of non-flawed players in this league. if by flawed you mean your assertion of him having bad handles. note, ron has one of the worst handles in the league at small forward, not my kind of player but he can still score and draw attention. i don't really see this as a really big commitment. a MLE contract for this kind of player is worth it. he still has room for improvement and even if he doesn't improve much, you already know what you're gonna get with his athleticism, defense and clutch shooting. as to your question of someone improving their dribble not known for it. i really didn't think Scottie pippen was a great dribbler when he started out in chiacago. but he was basically playing point forward by the end of his career.
Kev, There is not one iota of evidence that Ariza will work out here in Houston, or that he will be worth his 6 year contract. It is 100% conjecture on your part to say he will be effective. My primary beef with the signing is one of overpaying in an environment when we don't know Yao's status. We are locking up long term monies on a guy that may not fit on this team going forward. Sure he can run and dunk, so can Wafer, so can Gerald Green, so can a lot of NBA players.....Ariza can defend, but my point is that we need DIVERSITY on the floor. And with Battier, we need something better at the other wing, a person who can create, so that when Brooks gets doubled, we have a guy to take advantage. I don't HATE Trevor, I just think we overpaid in a down year.....he may very well work out, but I don't think he will ever be more than a Bruce Bowen type of player, and we need a Manu Ginobli type. DD
