I just find out no matter what happen to Jazz vs Spur game, as long as we beat the clipper, we will have homecourt. haha,crazy west, lucky rox,funny..... link: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-49/A-Four-Way-Tie-Would-be-Magnificent.html On the Salt Lake Tribune's basketball blog, Ross Siler points out the very real possibility that the Jazz, Spurs, Rockets, and Suns could all end the season 55-27. It'll take the coordinated efforts of all teams involved, and a Jazz win in San Antonio, where they tend to lose. But it really could happen. My first thought is: Cool! Exciting! Historical! And a perfect way to cap the West's season of parity. My next thought was ... wow. I wonder how they break that tie? The division winners have to be in the top four. And the usual tie-breaker -- head to head record -- would seem to be a little more complicated with four teams. Siler writes: I'm not sure how exactly the NBA would break a four-way tie. The Jazz would have to be assured a top four seed as a division champion. As far as individual tiebreakers go, the Spurs have a better division record than Houston, Phoenix owns the season series against San Antonio and Houston has a better conference record than Phoenix. Round and round we go. If it comes down to conference record, the Jazz would finish 34-18, Houston 33-19, San Antonio 32-20 and Phoenix 31-21. The Jazz would play the Suns in the first round under this tiebreaker. If it comes down to head-to-head against the other three teams, the Jazz are 7-3, Phoenix is 6-5, Houston is 5-6 and San Antonio is 4-8. The numbers are different because some teams were only scheduled to play three times this season. The Jazz would play San Antonio in the first round under this tiebreaker. If San Antonio loses Monday and Wednesday, Utah and the Spurs would meet in the first round as well. Of course, the Jazz also could lose Wednesday in San Antonio for the 21st consecutive time and settle for the No. 4 seed and a series with Houston. OK, I can help here, I think. After the jump, I posted the entire tie-break rules, straight from the NBA. They are not entirely simple. You may want to bookmark this post so you can check them again as these next few days unfold. My simplified interpretation as applies here: if all four end up tied, it does come down to winning percentage in games among the tied teams. And we're lucky, this year, that in this scenario such a tie-breaker really would settle everything without having to go deeper into the rules. Based on Siler's research a few paragraphs above, if those four teams end up 55-27, after the tie-breaks have been applied, the Lakers and Hornets would be followed in the third through sixth spots in the West with: Jazz Suns Rockets Spurs That would set up a killer Utah vs. San Antonio series. Now, you might wonder, who would get homecourt advantage in that series? Again, we apply the tie-break procedures, although now we only have two teams to consider. And if this tie happens, then Utah will have finished 3-0 against the Spurs this season, and so the Jazz will get the extra game at home. Playoff Tie-Break Procedures Ties for playoff positions (including division winners) will be broken utilizing the criteria set forth in subparagraph a. below (in the case of ties involving two teams) and subparagraph b. below (in the case of ties involving more than two teams), and the guidelines set forth in subparagraph c. below. Two Teams Tied In the case of a tie in regular-season records involving only two teams, the following criteria will be utilized in the following order: Better winning percentage in games against each other. Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if tied teams are in same division). Better winning percentage against teams in own conference. Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position). Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in opposite conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position). Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents ("point differential"). More Than Two Teams Tied In the case of a tie in regular season records involving more than two teams, the following criteria will be utilized in the following order: Better winning percentage in all games among the tied teams. Better winning percentage against teams in own division (only if all tied teams are in the same division). Better winning percentage against teams in own conference. Better winning percentage against teams eligible for playoffs in own conference (including teams that finished the regular season tied for a playoff position). Better net result of total points scored less total points allowed against all opponents ("point differential"). Guidelines For Applying Tie-Break Criteria The following guidelines shall be used when applying the above criteria to break ties for playoff positions: (1) (a) The first four seeds in each conference will continue to be given to the three division winners and the team with the next best regular season record, but these four teams will now be seeded in order of their regular season records. Among other things, this change will ensure that the two teams with the best records in the conference will not meet earlier than the Conference Finals. (b) When a tie must be broken to determine a division winner, the results of the tie-break shall be used to determine only the division winner and its playoff position, not any other playoff position(s). (2) If a tie involves more than two teams, the tie-break criteria in subparagraph b. shall be applied in the order set forth therein until the first to occur of the following: (a) Each of the tied teams has a different winning percentage or point differential under the applicable tiebreak criterion (a "complete" breaking of the tie). In this circumstance, the team with the best winning percentage or point differential under the criterion will be awarded the best playoff position, the team with the next-best winning percentage or point differential will be awarded the next-best playoff position, and so on, and no further application of the tie-break criteria will be required. (b) One or more (but not all) of the tied teams has a different winning percentage or point differential under the applicable tie-break criterion (a "partial" breaking of the tie). In this circumstance: (x) any team(s) that performed better under the applicable criterion than any other team(s) will be awarded a higher playoff position than such other team(s); and (y) teams that had equivalent performance under the applicable criterion will remain tied, and such remaining tie(s) will be broken by applying, from the beginning, the criteria in subparagraph a.(1)-(6) above (for any remaining tie involving only two teams) or subparagraph b.(1)-(5) above (for any remaining tie involving more than two teams) and the guidelines set forth in this subparagraph (3) If application of the criteria in subparagraph a. or b. does not result in the breaking of a tie, the playoff positions of the tied teams will be determined by a random drawing.
Is this headline accurate? "Parker's double-double helps Spurs secure third seed in West" http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=280414023 Witht he likely outcomes on Wednesday, there will be a 4 way tie at 55-27 and maybe a 5-way tie if the Hornets blow it tonight.
im so confused, and i dont think beating the clips is as simple as securing HCA regardless of all other outcomes.
I think if we beat the Clippers, we win HCA in three out of the four possible scenarios. Rox Win + Spurs Loss + Suns Loss = no HCA vs. Spurs Rox Win + Spurs Loss + Suns Win = HCA vs. Suns Rox Win + Spurs Win + Suns Loss = HCA vs. Jazz Rox Win + Spurs Win + Suns Win = HCA vs. Jazz
i dont think we would have hca over suns...they would be placed 4th and we would be placed 5th in the event of a four way tie, and they arent a division winner
Wow maybe all these threads should be merged? btw, this thread and DaDakota's earlier thread are mistaken according to ScriboErgoSum and Kim. There is much debate over this scenario. The question comes down to whether after you pick out the 3 division winners (LA, NO, Utah) and do the 3-team tiebreak to determine the 4th seed (Phoenix in this case as they're 5-3, Rockets 4-4, Spurs 3-5), you (#1) pick the 5th and 6th place teams using the results of that 3-team tiebreak or (#2) if you reseed the bottom 4 teams. Jonathan Feigan and others believe #1 which puts the Rockets 5th (w/ HCA against Phoenix) and Spurs 6th. Scribo/Kim/Cannonball believe #2 is correct which since the Spurs own the tiebreak against us would put them at 5th and us at 6th without HCA against the Jazz. So...... if #1 is true, this thread and DaDa's thread are correct about us very like having HCA regardless of the Spurs/Jazz game. If #2 is true (which I believe is the case), we are almost certainly playing the Jazz, and we should root for the Spurs in order for us to get HCA against them.
I think this all boils down the Order of Operations. 1) Pick Division winners and give them a top 4 seed. This is not in dispute. It's 2-4 that are in question. It's either: 2) Pick the best team that didn't win its division and give them a top 4 seed. 3) Seed 1 - 4 based on record. 4) Seed 5 - 8 based on record. Or: 2) Order the 5 teams that didn't win their division by record. Give the top team a top 4 seed. 3) Seed 1 - 4 based on record. 4) Award seeds 5 - 8 according to the order determined in step 2. I hope its the second choice because that would give us home court over the Suns. I'm starting to think I might have been wrong on this. I really, really hope so.
Here's the latest reply from Feigen: Jonathan, Assuming the Rockets and Hornets beat the Clippers, if the Spurs beat the Jazz, the Rockets will play the Jazz with homecourt no matter what else happens. The only way they can play the Spurs is if the Jazz beat the Spurs and the Suns lose. Is all of that correct? Also, you made a great point in the first sentence of this blog. How likely do you think it will be that the Spurs and Jazz both rest their starters? (You are correct that the only way the Rockets can play the Spurs is if the Spurs and the Suns lose. If the Rockets, Jazz and Suns win, the Rockets play the Suns. I don't think the Jazz will rest players that much. Homecourt is too valuable to them and I'm guessing that resting healthy players is not Jerry Sloan's way. -- Jonathan) Posted by: brent at April 15, 2008 01:28 PM http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2008/04/pick_your_poison_rockets_to_pl.html Also, earlier Feigen said he talked to someone in the NBA, "I can tell you, according to the NBA, if there is a four-way tie, the Rockets play the Suns, starting in Houston. Again, according to the NBA, if the Suns lose and the Rockets win, the Rockets would play the loser of Spurs-Jazz. Any dispute you have with that, you should take up with them. That is what they have told me and the involved teams this morning." I sent him my four equation thing earlier, and he posted that on his blog. I know he screens what he posts to his blog, but I'm not sure if he screens for accuracy or not. If so, maybe we should just run with that?
According to MattJ, #1 is correct and we should actually hope Phoenix wins. I assume they will want to in order to play us instead of the Jazz (if Utah wins against SA). But regardless, a 75% chance of HCA is great news! Let's beat the Clippers first though of course.
