smith was a drop-back passer. in 98, he threw for over 3,000 yards and ran for less than 200. NOTHING like vince young. except that he's black and played QB.
WHY DON'T YOU THROW WARREN MOON IN THERE WHILE YOU ARE AT IT.....MORON! WHY IS IT, THAT WHEN A WHITE QB CAN RUN, HE GETS PRAISED FOR BEING SO VERSATILE. WHEN A BLACK QB CAN RUN, A BUNCH WHITE GUYS LOOK FOR ANYTHING TO CRITICIZE THE GUY. FEAR OF A BLACK MAN!
VY passed for over 3000 yards and about 270 versus USC. Below are more observations from a 2nd viewing, including the myth than VY can only pass short. That is what USC gave him, we usually credit passers for being smart for passing to the open guy rather than forcing it down field into coverage. BTW I watched nearly every game Bush played this year. He is a phenom athlete but isn't a constant dominating player. For every bit of adjustment VY needs, Bush needs just as much if not more. Bush thrives on space and being faster than everyone--that space will be gone in the pros. VY has size, speed, and instincts. The guy kills you with his legs and arm in the mold of a taller Steve McNair, Steve Young or McNabb. Heck if Mike Vick had 3 inches, more touches, and better leadership abilities wouldn't you want him? If Culpepper was a little faster and was mentally tougher wouldn't you want him? That could very well be what VY is, a combination of size, legs, arm, instincts and leadership abilities that only comes along every decade or so. Perhaps the best QB talent in the draft since Elway. I will say Bush's TD run was exceptional. He did turn the corner on 2-3 future NFLs in Huff, Ross and Michael Griffin. I had not seen anyone do that to UT's secondary. But let's say Bush is somewhere on the upper end a blend of Faulk and Dorsett, or on the lower end like Westbrook or Tiki Barber. And VY on the upper end in a blend of Elway/Montana or on the lower end a Culpepper or Cunningham. I think you have to VY, and the questions about Bush being an every down back, being durable in the posistion where you get him the most, and adjusting to NFL speed is every bit as relevant to the questions about VY. MY POST FROM ANOTHER BOARD about VY and Leinart I rewatched the Rose Bowl to examine some claims. On Young. -We all know he was 30/40 throwing with no INTs. -Of the 10 incompletions, 2-3 were bad throws that should have been intercepted. -Most the the throws were short, but he did have a fair amount of midrange throws on the money (to Pittman or Sweed). -Is is fair to criticism him on no long balls? I think completely not. He did throw a couple of 40 type yarders, and each time USC had a corner and safety help right there. It was good he did not force more. It was clear Carroll wanted Young to have to beat them on dink throws and kept his safeties back, you can't blame Young for taking what the defense gave him in throwing for 270. He was incredibly patient and efficient passing--we usually credit QBs for playing like that (Brady and Montana's fortee) when that is what the D gives you. Also, it was clear Texas did not have a WR the caliber of Jarrett who could bail you out of jump balls more often than not. On Leinart. -He was 29/40, 1 INT. -He had more bad throws than Young--most were 1st half. He through an INT, 2 more that should have been INTs (defensive player had 2 hands on it), and 1 more borderline INT throw. -With time and a pocket he was deadly. He also was patient and except for some forces to Bush, generally picked the right target. -Good overall athlete, but not particularly quick on the release or accurate on the move. ON BOTH GUYS -Not able to evaluate if either is good at the Troy Aikman type 25 yard deep out (requires great timing and arm strength). They may not be able to do them or they may not be in their offense's. -Terrific leaders. The last 2 drives by Texas VY made critical runs AND THROWS. It wasn't all legs, key throws were mixed in. VY did make a bad throw that Ting should have intercepted. Leinart was near perfect in the 2nd half, but one of his misthrows cost them as well. It was a 2nd down on the potential game clinching drive, Leinart had to move a little and missed the fullback. This play preceding Lendale being held 6 inches short (should have been 1 yard short) after two carries that gave VY the chance to win. DRAFT SUMMARY Both players leadership, patience and competitiveness I don't think can be disputed from the Rose Bowl or other games. But if VY shows the better arm strength in workouts, as anticipated, there ir no way I'd pass on him. Too much upside for Young. Just because he is fast and elusive does not make him Vick. He kills you on paitence and making the right play, be it run (e.g., 200 yards in Bowl/1000 season) or pass (270 yards/almost 3000 season). A bigger Steve Young, faster McNabb or bigger Staubach is a much fairer comparison in terms of blending leadership, athleticism, paitence and skills running or throwing. Even if he doesn't have the Elway/Cunningham/Farve/Marino/Aikman arm, he has too much else not to be successfull. BTW the Texans should be drug out an shot if they take the 15-20 touches a game Bush #1 over franchise QBs. If they want to keep Carr they should trade down to someone who wants Young/Leinart at #1.
i've noticed this, and it's true. if a white guy can scramble, then it's a good thing. if black guy can scramble, then it's a problem, because it means he probably can't throw??? so you overlook the stats and what the guy actually did and make a judgment based on some idea in your head of how this guy should perform...not based on anything other then generalizations. "well, look...mike vick can't throw!" yeah...but mike vick wasn't nearly the passer at the college level that vince was, either.
Mike Vick looks alot better when he throws, but still has a terrible completion percentage. I will take VYs sidearm motion(which,by the way,due to his size, will have the same release point height as many NFL QBs)any day, as long as he brings that same winning mentality. The guy knows how to win, and that is the ultimate goal!
Vick's completion % was right at 60% his senior year. Also, Vick only lost 1 college football game in his two years, to FSU in the national championship game. The comparisons are astounding. In my opinion, Young will be the next Mike Vick. He'll win games with his feet, but he'll lose just as many with his arm.
There are similarities. But two obvious differences are that VY has more touch/arch throwing and is 6'5 230+. Those right there are major differences and two of Vick's limitations.
I'm glad that we're making arbitrary decisions based on superficialities. I hereby christen Reggie Bush as the next Onterrio Smith, insofar as he's a shifty all-purpose RB and shares the same major characteristics as Young does with smith (black, same position, Oregon). Whizzinator sales in H-town are about to go thru the roof!
I'm torn between Vince and Reggie. But I think the lowside of Vince is lower than Cunningham and Culpepper. Culpepper's got a better arm than vince and he is definately a pocket QB. Let's remember he threw for 30 plus td's, 4000 yards passing, and had a 100+QB rating last year. If Young ever produced those numbers in the pro's, he will be one of the greatest QB's ever, especially when you factor in his mobility/leadership advantages of Culpepper. I also think we are selling Cunningham short. Didn't he win NFL MVP in 1990 or 1991? He is a 5 time Pro Bowler. The upside of Vince is great, but the downside of Vince is a lot lower than being a perenial Pro Bowler like Cunningham and Culpepper. If I was guaranteed he would have at least the career of those two, it's a no brainer to pick him. I don't believe that to be the case though.
i've said it before and i'll say it again. this is probably the WORST comparison of them all. seriously, the guy rushed for 184 yards his senior year in college! where is the comparison? yeah he threw for a lot of yards but he completed 58% of passes compared to vince's 65%. akili had a strong arm but that was it. vince is more polished passer and such a better runner it's not even funny. this comparison is awful.
what else could VY have done to prove that he is a winner? he should be drafted #1 on principle, just as a thank you for sticking it to the cocky USC fans. I live in SOCAL, and the look on the faces of these people was PRICELESS. It looked as though somebody shot their dog right in front of them. THANK YOU VY. YOU ARE MY HERO!
Fair enough. But VY leadership and calmness in the most critical of situations would already appear to be greater than Culpepper, McNabb (I always thought he was a fierce leader but beggining in last year's superbowl I have my doubts), Steve Young (great athlete with legs, arm and touch, but only superbowl a romp, I think he lost a lot of close playoff games) and Cunningham. His personality and leadership sure look more from the mold of Brady and Montana than the traditional athletic QB whose decision making in tense situations is questioned. How about a taller Steve McNair or quicker Elway with no quite that kind of gun? Or a Steve Young with more size and little more confidence and calmness. Unless his arm or mind show up to be much weaker than we all think in evaluations VY is just too rare of physical talent and leader to pass up.
Desert Scar, I think that is a very good post and very good comparisons. Right now I would say as a prospect, he is a taller McNair with a weaker (but not weak) arm. John Elway is also a very good comparison but I don't know what kind of prospect Elway was.
i believe elway was kind of a toss up as a prospect. he played baseball in the minor leagues and was a little unrefined as a quarterback in college. all that the scouts and most people knew was that he had great athleticism and a great arm, and was poised under pressure. all the little intangibles and skills of being a pro qb were up in the air.
