Still rare. And Mack didn't have a player get this close to the heisman as an underclassman before, nor won any national/conf championships.. that kinda changes things.
Ricky Williams after his junior year would've been a top 10 pick. He probably would've been a Heisman finalist if the 1997 had not have been so horrible.
Akili was a stud in college. More polished passer than Vince but less athletic. I only refer to Akili's college career. Could the Texans package Carr and the number 1 to NOLA for the number 2 and some players/picks?
Any QB who gets consistent pressure from the inside tackles and who has adequate containment from the ends is going to be in trouble. But which is more likely, VY and the Oline had an off day versus A&M, or Pete Carroll forgot to review the A&M tape and this genie in the bottle on how to neutrelize VY was lost to him.
We will have to agree to disagree on how USC defended VY. I saw their DEs consistently trying to get up field on him, and I saw VY consistently side step the rush. When I am talking about a contain rush the DE would take 1-2 steps over the line and shadow him. This would help take away any speed advantage VY had. USC certainly did not do this. I know fron his time in the NFL Carrol likes to blitz, he did the same things to Quinn against ND and ND should have beaten USC. I think Carrol got out coached by VY plain and simple. I personally would have had the DEs try to keep him in the pocket and I would have run a cover 2 to take away the middle of the field as this is where he completed the majority of his passes. I don't think USC did this. Again, I like VY ALOT, I agree with you about his potential, I guess I am trying to temper some people's enthusiasm about him a touch, because as you seem to agree with he has a ways to go. I am torn because I think Carr, if given the weapons and protection, can be an excellent QB. I think a combo of Bush (I think more of him than you appear to) Davis, Andre, Mathis, and a pass catching TE could be downright frightening for DCs. While I wouldn't mind getting VY at all, the prospect of 2-3 years of potentially mediocre football is not exciting, but the end result could be awesome. In regards to Bush, I think he will suprise you in the NFL. He is much more than a just a speed back. It is his ability to change directions that IMHO will make him special. Unfortunately, there aren't many Bo Jacksons any more (my all time favorite, along with Earl). I think size wise he is very similar to Barber (I believe went for over 1700 yds this season), Martin, Faulk, and is bigger than Dunn. BTW, Dunn is an excellent inside runner, not a power back, but an effective inside runner. He will easily put on size and I expect him to be 215-220 by the start of the 07 season. Also, if you are more internet savy than I am, check how many backs carried the ball 25 times a game, also find out how many carried more than 25 times in more than 10 of the 16 games. Maybe Rudy, maybe Larry Johnson, and maybe Alexander. Plus I would absolutely keep DD and use them at the same time, with Bush in the slot. He would be downright frightening on WR screens, reverses, quick slants etc... He would also draw ALOT of attention from the D, opening things up for DD, Andre, and hopefully Mathis - if he progresses well. I guess either way we will end up with a stud, as long as Casserly doesn't screw it up. Have a good evening.
A more polished passer - who played in a different style of offense, and who was not much of a rushing threat whatsoever (as opposed to arguably the most dominant dual threat player ever ), who is also smaller. You know who Akili Smith sounds a lot more like if we're comparing him to somebody? MATT LEINART. He's an Akili Smith clone, just paler. I'm not sure why anybody doesn't see this. You might as well uses Andrew Walter as the comparison if we're just picking random drop-back passers as comparisons. At least he's 6'5 or 6'6.
Yeah but, allegedly the Texans were gonna take Roy Williams over Andre Johnson if he came out too. About VY, UT has won with him only rushing for less than ten yards.
We are coming closer to agreeing on some things. I watched the USC-Texas game twice. I really don't fault Carroll much at all. Most of the game they didn't give Texas the deep ball, everyone thrown had good corner coverage and a safety over the top. They wanted to keep VY and the Wrs in front of them, and make them be patient and methodical. If VY throws over the middle were off or tipped by the WRs, they were ready to capitolize. When the WRs got them they went to strip. It nearly worked. On the last drive Carroll tried combination blitzes with safeties. He was out of cards and had to try something. It almost worked after Rucker made a great play on the screen to Taylor forcing 2nd and long, the later face mask saved a 4th down for Texas. Rucker is a highly regarded DE and made a great play on the very elusive Taylor, yet somehow he never could even when in right position on VY. I have watched Bush a lot and he is absolutely spectacular in the open field. But if he were as good between the tackles and as strong/durable as people say Carroll would have riden that horse. It is hard for me to fathum people seeing him as a sure thing elite pro tailback. If he is the next Faulk or Dorsett, let alone Sayers or Barry S that some have thrown around, he would have gotten 30+ touches, particularly if the NC was on the line. He has never been used like this because either 1) his stamina isn't that great, 2) Carroll had concerns about his durability, or because 3) LenDale was better between the tackles. Whichever it is, I think #3, it should produce questions that have been overlooked. All the guys thrown around-- Barber, Faulk, Dorsett, Sayers, Sanders, even some others like Dunn or Portis--had a ton more carries and were relentless workhorses between the tackles even when teams knew they were going to rush. And there was no way on a 4th an 1.5 play with the season on the line LenDale would not have been told to take a seat and wait until next year if that coach had Faulk or Dorsett. So if VY has questions--and there are fair ones-- there are certainly ones for Bush. I could change my tune. But outside of Bush having a Deion like 4.25 40 and squats like 500LBS OR VY arm showcasing a lot weaker arm or putred Wonderlic than expected I think anyone using the #1 pick should not pick Bush this draft. Bush is a great athlete, but VY is probably no less than equal athlete when you factor strength/size, and is the better, more dominant, football player. If you knew Bush was on Faulk/B. Sanders level you can justify skipping VY, but I don't think anyone can say this with confidence. The evidence from consistently controlling every football game he plays--particularly between the tackles where the best RBs ultimately making their living-- is not there from Bush. The safest pick is probably Leinart, but I view VY and Bush as having major questions about translating their games with VY the ultimate upside of any player in this draft, or perhaps any draft in recent memory. Just can't pass that up based on perceived need.
Quick Fix Mentality- Draft Reggie Bush Long Term Planning- Draft Vince Young Building a Champion- Fire Casserly Actually for the Texans to become a Super Bowl contender two of the above needs to happen. The only problem I have with drafting Vince Young is that it may delay the firing of Charlie Casserly. The only think I like about drafting Reggie Bush is that it may hasten the firing of Casserly.
I think that because he is a gifted open field player that is how they chose to use him. White is a hoss, and I think USC was trying to utilize the strengths of each player, but I don't think that this means Bush cannot run inside or that White cannot be utilized in the open field or run outside. I think in the current era of specialization, you will have a hard time finding a back carrying the ball 25 times. I really do believe that Bush will be another Barry Sanders type of back. Just FYI- Emmit Smith 5' 11" 216, Barry Sanders 5'8" 203, Curtis Martin 5'11" 205, Marshall Faulk 5'11" 205 Reggie Bush 6' 207 and he is only 21 yrs old. You reach peak strength levels at about 25, so I would certainly expect him to gain abother 10-12 lbs. He can reportedly bench press 400lbs so I am prett sure that his strength levels are excellent. You might be right about Leinart being the best prospect overall though. I know VY is a winner, but so is Leinart is career record is sick. Leinart will suffer because people will say he was the product of a good team.
Have you noticed that ever since Vince and The University of Texas brought home the National Championship, we have had a most felicitous period of weather. Surley the gods are smiling on our fair hero as one of their own. (I have heard it said that Vince is of Zues' own seed)
Sam- I didn't make the Akili Smith comparison. I was responding to people who did. In fact - my posts about Akili refer moreso to the differences between Akili and Vince and how Vince is NOT an Akili clone. I saw a lot of Akili Smith games. He was pretty mobile and a threat to run. I don't care what the stats say - that guy had very good athleticism and his mobility was always a problem for the opposing team. And yes - I'll stand by my claim that he was a more polished passer at this stage. No sh*t Oregon ran a different offense. That may explain why Akili was a more experienced passer. He threw the ball more. It's pretty easy to poopoo drafting Akili Smith. The person who made the original comparison was using their similiarites as a reason NOT to draft Vince. I think assuming Vince will suck because Akili sucked is baseless. Akili had a great college career. It's always a crapshoot drafting QB's.
It is always a crapshoot drafting at any position. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2143765 KiJana Carter, Blair Thomas and Curtis Enis were thought of sure fires RBs, all top 5 picks, and they failed spectacularly. There are great examples of failed OTs, DLs and linebackers too. We just pay more attention to failing quarterbacks who were top 5 picks. Then again, nothing is like building a team starting with a young future hall of fame QB either (Peyton, Elway, Aikman, McNabb, etc)
That's a good point. I don't think Ki-Jana ever had a fair shot. I remember the guy tore up his knee on his third pre-season carry as a rookie. Never had the same speed ever again. Tore up the other knee a couple of years later.
the person who made the comparison did not know f-ck all about akili smith other than that he was black, and a bust. The guy had nowhere near the athleticism of young. Physically, statistically, and stylistically he is a closer fit to Leinart, and ran the same kind of offense, in the same conference. but he was black, and a bust. that's why the comparison was made.
