It's not a comparison. We should compare Harden's TO's to a person on his level such as D. Wade. Turnover's allways hurt a teams chances of winning. Big no no for anybody even for lebron.
well when you go to the rack a lot you're going to turn it over. and when you can get to the rack, you tend to go to the rack, even though harden is more of a booty guy.
No, no, no. Just because he's a great scorer at times, does not give him a pass (no pun intended) to throw lazy azz passes to the other team. If he has 3 turnovers being agressive going to the rim so be it. But for him to throw 2 or 3 lazy azz passes across court directly to the other team is unacceptable. Last years playoffs I think he got a pass for it being his first season with us (even though he shouldn't have). But for him to be making the SAME mistakes with no accountability is ridiculous. You can't just throw the ball to the other team.
We should be talking about Harden's TOs here, not Harden's TOs vs. Lin's TOs. Harden's TOs are due to his attempt to draw fouls. When he doesn't get the call, it results in a TO and it's live ball TOs. These are bad TOs. Harden is trying to draw fouls less though this season. Last season he was trying to draw fouls more than trying to make the shots. This year, he's doing far better with actually trying to make the shots and drawing fouls become secondary. When you drive to the hoops that many times a game, you will have higher chance turning it over. This applies to everyone.
Not sure why you guys keep comparing Lin and Harden's TOs. I think OP was very specific in the thread title "enough of Lin, let's talk about Harden". Why don't you compare him to CP3, Durant, and Lebron if Rockets ultimately need to beat Clippers, OKC & Miami? If you truly believe Harden is on those guys' level, would you still give him a pass on TOs and D?
There is no comparison between D Wade and Harden. D Wade can sit 4-5 games in a row while Harden can't even sit 4-5 minutes on our bench. Check the last few games when we lost, for almost every game, there were an extensive period of time when Lin and the second unit was out there and we failed to score, yesterday was like 4 minutes or so. Its funny that LOF will still use those LIN stats of : when Harden was out, Lin's lead Rockets had awesome win/loss record. Lin has almost no ISO game in his current form and he definitely can not make this teammates better like the way Harden did.
Here are the top 11 guys in TO/game this season, not including Kobe and Rose. Westbrook Curry Carter Williams Wall Harden Lebron Durant Cousins Lawson Ellis Howard High turnovers are often a byproduct of high production. It's when you have high turnovers without the production that it becomes a real problem.
Agree. Although it's a shame that Howard has to be up there since he really doesn't touch the ball that much.
^ Agreed on all fronts.... .....Harden vs Lin? Really?? You guys are grasping at straws here... In the simplest terms: Rockets minus Lin = Would anyone even notice (besides the LOF's)? Rockets minus Harden = Back to mediocrity
Harden's are terrible - some of them he tries to be fancy and just throws them away. But, with his usage rate, it is acceptable - the same for Jeremy - the problem is you can only have one of those guys...and we have 3....YIKES ! DD
I am just thinking who will be blamed for losing games after Lin is traded to or sign a new contract with new team.
Ok, per 100 possessions Harden turns the ball over 12.5 times. Per 100 possessions Wade turns it over 12.4 times. What does that tell you?
Per 100 possessions: Harden 12.5 turnovers Lebron 11.5 turnovers Durant 10.4 turnovers Looks like they are all right there in the same ballpark.
At least Harden manages to make up for them while Lin just disappears because he has no tenacity or heart. Possibly the most mentally fragile player in the game
I don't really have a problem with Harden's turnovers. Wing players that score at a high clip turn the ball over. He is averaging 29 points a game in the second half of the season... He is an elite scorer and elite at creating for other players.. Turnovers are a byproduct. Drawyne Wade, Michael Jordan, Clyde Drexler, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James have similar rates. What people should be mad about is James Harden's hubris. He typically defends well... Over time begins to ball watch and sag into the paint and within a few games runs into someone that can shoot well that embarrasses him and he starts to defend better again... The same process has happened for nearly two years. I have him a pass last year because the Rockets told their wings to sag.. But this year they made it a point to NOT sag... Yet Harden continues to sag. Last night against the Nets he constantly KNEW his man was at the 3 point line, but sagged inside and would then frantically throw his arms up and hope the 3 was missed.
Why are we even talking about this? Your eye tests are notoriously inaccurate. And as Morey said the inventor of the box score should be taken out and shot. Here are Hardens defensive stats per possession type this season: And here are Durants: One might immediately point to Hardens rank at 144 in the NBA and assume that he is a bad defender. But if you look at the total PPP number Harden only trails Durant by 0.04 PPP on defense. A completely trivial number. Many of your impressions are unduly influenced by one horrendous game and your follow the crowd mentality. Get past that. And turnovers. Yep, as has been pointed out Harden is within ~2% of other great scorers in the league as far as turnovers go. 2 per 100 possessions. It is an outcome of their attacking style and their focus on assists. I expect to get at least one "Melo does not have a lot of turnover" replies. Do not go there.
