If Shaq retires and Yao stay in China then who's the best center in the league? Ilgauskas? Dampier? Does that make either of them dominant palyers? Then why the hell does being the best of a sorry lot make Yao dominant?
To put it simple, I am just sick of this kind of thread. You should know, everyone is sacrificing somthing for his teammates, that is called team basketball. Plus, SF's confidence and game is destroyed by what? By Yao's coming??? Don't be so rediculous. I won't intend to bash SF, CAT or Yao, or anyone in this way after a loss. Please don't stand out everytime after a loss, and declares "I am a prophet, I know he is a bust" thing. It just makes me..........sick!
Juugie, base on your assessment about Yao. I don't think the owners would trade their franchise players you mentioned for such an inferior player like Yao. If the owners had the same assessment like yours on Yao. I think the owners would probably have to think real hard before trading the following players I listed below for Yao. Would you trade Yao straight up for any player listed here? Big Z Eric Dampier Eddy Curry Mehmet Okur Rasho AK47 Rasheed Wallace Kmart Brad Miller
You know what, mr. Juugie? I read your posts like gospel and have no agrument with your evaluation. Other than my summaries about your posts above, Yao is even average with no fire and no guts now. I just dont know how can we convince other teams to trade him for their studs? Because they should all know the fact that Yao's a bust. Or u think u r the only genius in NBA who knows everything about Yao that others dont, Mr. Juugie? That's why I suggest u to keep your thoughtful and unique evaluation to yourself otherwise when it becomes known fact then no one would trade their studs for yao. Again, Yao+moochie for Dampier? Pull the trigger? To make it a simple question, can u tell us how to convince others to trade their studs for our bust?
Nope. Dampier is more a lower post threat than Yao. No way GS will pull the trigger. Yao + 2 first round picks for Dampier might be ok.
every thing except the one for O'Neal and Artest sounds bad and stupid. I think the Lebron one would be ok if we are thin as heck up front and already loaded in the back court. In a sense, this is as bas as those Stevie for Boykin threads.
Junggie, what you're proposing shows that you would be more satisfied with immediate mediocrity, than the potential of winning a championship. Oh, and ditto everything that everyone else said about your post being lunacy. The only thing you got right is that Yao played like crap last night and that he is still too soft.
I'm starting to believe that Yao will never be a true superstar level player. He'll be a terrific player for sure, but his lack of agressiveness/heart/athletic ability will prevent him from reaching that level of superstardom. I agree with Juggie that some qualities are innate and you either have it or not. However, that doesn't mean that we should trade Yao because chances are we are not going to get a superstar level player in return. In fact, there are only a handful of superstar level players in the league and not all of them will help you win a championship. And I still believe that Yao can be an important piece on a contender, just maybe not as the first option on offense. Juugie, if your goal is to win a championship eventually, the trades that you proposed really dont make sense: Yao, Moochie, and throw in for Amare and Penny --Amare Stoudemire will never be a true go-to guy on a team, and his lack of size will prevent him from reaching the level of dominance. Keep in mind that the goal here is to win a championship. And do you honest believe that Amare can provide the defensive presence we need when we face a guy like Tim Duncan? Yao and Moochie for Dampier and Nick Van Excel -- I'm not even gonna comment on this one. Just check Van Exel's age and Dampier's track record. Yao and Mot T for Jermaine O'Neal and Artest --This is a deal that I'll give some consideration. Artest is a special player. When he's right he can DOMINATE the pace of a game like very few can. However, by making this trade we virtually have killed our chances of acquring a true go-to player in the post. JO is not a player that you want to build a team around (which is the reason why Indy will not win a championship in the near future). I actually watch the Pacers a lot and I can tell you JO is mainly a jump shooter. Besides, he's a good help defender but a terrible one-on-one defender. Yao for Zach Randolph --Size, size, size. The reason for not making this trade is the same reason why you shouldn't build your team around a pleyer like Elton Brand. Yao for LeBron - I can dream right? -- Yes, you can. In a playoff setting, a player like Yao is more valuable than a player like Amare, Zach, or JO because his ability/potential on the defensive end. The only problem with keeping Yao is that I dont think he'll be worth the maximum contract when it's time to resign him. You want to give that type of money to a true superstar who can lead your team to a championship (i.e. Dream type player). I dont think that Yao can be that guy and neither can Steve (which makes his contract HORRIBLE). The only two players that we should packet Yao and Steve to acquire are Duncan and Shaq (yes he still has five good years left). However, that will never happen. Hence, the only deal involving Yao that I would make now would be the following: Trade Yao Ming and Mo Taylor to Chicago For Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, and Kirk Hinrich. I doubt that Chandler and Curry can demand maximum money yet, and I think that these two are the best center prospects in the league right now beside Yao (and Chandler might have more potential). Hinrich is a solid PG that this team can certainly use.
Another classic Juugie Yao-bashing post (after a bad Yao game, who wouda thought?) Yao averaged 13pts and 8 rebs last year, he is averaging roughly 17pts and 10rebs a quarter into his SECOND season. Get the point, yet? Stuart
I'd like to see the team stop relying on Yao to turn into a 20/10 guy. What I'd be happy with would be 15/12 to go along with 3 blocks and a couple assists. This, of course would mean getting the offense moving and getting consistant 18 from Cat and an additional 18 and 5 assists from Francis. With the supporting cast Yao shouldn't be required to get 20 a night. Should he be able to? Of course, but not required. He's got a great shot, let him float a little bit and open up the driving lanes for Cat and Steve. Maybe mixing in a little bit of penetrate and dish play could open things up and give us more opportunities to score. I'm not convinced that any one player can be singled out on this team. Not Yao, not Steve, not Cat, no one player. Its a team game and its the coach's job to see they play that way. The entire team (players and coaches) should all be getting the blame.
It is absolutely amazing to me how biased and slanted this thread is. Juugie, I understand Steve Francis is your favorite player on the Rockets but sheesh atleast try to be a tad objective. I am in disbelief that someone is blaming Steve Francis's abysmal performance this season on Yao Ming. Do you even watch the games? Steve Francis, despite what folks like Juugie think, still has the largest role in this offense. The opportunities are definitely there, the problem is that Steve has regressed this season. Steve takes more shots than any other player on this team and has the ball in his hands the most. Im not exactly sure the reason, but Steve Francis has slowed down a good bit this yr and simply is not as effective at getting into the lane. Francis continues to make terrible reads on offense and that is made worse by a lesser ability to get into the paint. To compound the problem, Steve's jumpshot is probably the worst it has been in his career and his little step back jumper is clanging short. Watching Marbury and Davis square off last night was a real eye opener after watching the Rockets debacle. These two PGs are so much better than Steve Francis its not even funny. Marbury gets very similar play calls to Francis (ie high pnr) but his reads are so much better and gets into the lane so much easier. Marbury has way better court vision, instincts and quickness than Francis. I guess theres a reason why Marbury can dish over 8 APG on less than 3 TO per game while Francis is still muddling along with his pathetic Ast to TO ratio. Last season, I honestly felt that Cuttino Mobley had to go, but I am so glad that management did not go that route. Steve's quickness and change of direction has slowed down so much its disgusting and in addition his jump shot has become very unreliable. Cuttino, on the other hand, has done an excellent job adjusting to JVG's scheme and has provided a spark very similar to what Sprewell did for JVG in New York. Cat has been getting his shots in the offensive flow and taking very good shots. Fans of other teams that I speak with regularly pointed this out as well (how much JVG has reigned in Cat and how well he is fitting the scheme.) Cat has also arguably become the teams best perimeter defender causing him to become an invaluable asset. Also, just in case you have not noticed, Cuttino Mobley plays more MPG than anyone on this team so this whole bit about benching him is not happening. If the Rockets do trade Cuttino, they are absolutely nuts. Finally, I agree that Yao plays like a wuss some nights and needs to bring effort consistent every night. However, Yao is a much better player than he was last yr and has shown huge strides overall. If Francis had shown this amount of improvement this yr, then we would be having these discussions. If anyone expected Yao to be 23-12 this season, then they were deluding themselves. Yao can be that dominant but its not happening for another year or two. I am quite happy with his progress and think Yao will be a 20-10 player by the end of the season. 23-12 is the type of numbers Tim Duncan (who many consider the best player in basketball) puts up. Thus, if anyone is going to be traded, it should be Steve.
Manal, when you start looking for reasons why SF have slowed make sure you look at the energy and speed he has on defense. He is helping as much or more as anyone on defense and usually have the most to travel. I do not know why he should move so much because the numbers suggest he is the one that needs the help. He is in a deficit position vs his opponents. But I believe that he has to pace himself and the defense is taking alot out of him. That is another reason why our rotation should not be shortened. His shooting numbers are down also because he is not getting as many easy baskets.
I don't understand this type of argument. I mean what in the hell has Francis done since being on this team?? He has made the all-star game and put up some good stats, but he hasn't led the team yet to the playoffs. But yet it is his team?? Well, after 4 seasons of failing to reach the playoffs, I think it is time to find someone else to "lead" this team, don't you?? As usual, MManal has the best post in this thread. Read it and study it, threadstarter, Roc Paint, and other Francis lovers. As a matter of fact, read it about 10 times, if you have to. And I have seen some bad trades suggested here before but Yao and Moochie for Van Exel and Dampier is the worst one that I have ever seen in the 2+ years I have been here.
Chill...........let's put things in perspective. Yao, in his 21st game of his second year got schooled by the league MVP. Sure, he had a bad game, but Yao is intelligent and will simply learn from the experience. You can see him trying to grasp and manage the physicality of the NBA game, and learn how to adapt. 6' 11" players will always be quicker than he is, especially someone as skilled as Duncan. He will learn, and he will ultimately become a dominating force. Remember the "show" that Duncan put on in the NBA finals last year was something to behold.....incredible. Let's cut Yao some slack. So before overreacting to one game, one bad outing, let's keep things in perspective. Yao is averaging 17 and 10, not bad at this stage. I'm actually a lot more concerned about Francis than Yao, simply because he doesn't have the intuitive basketball instincts of a floor leader - and you can see JVG trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. That, my friends, is the key that will unlock this offense. Patience grasshopper D R
