HayesStreet, before I respond, let me clarify what I consider "critical thining": I don't think the things described by Lindsmith prove that narratives are "essential" to critical thinking. That is only true part of the time. Narratives can just as easily be used to tap into irrational fears and deep-rooted prejudices (for example, see Willie Horton). I do not disagree with this. Narratives can definitely open up debate. In a sense, they are a lot like one of the hearsay exceptions in legal evidentiary procedure: They can be used to show the state of mind of the narrator but not to prove the truth of the matter asserted. This is commentary on how narratives strengthens collaboration. It says very little about "focused, organized thinking about such things as the logical relationships among ideas, the soundness of evidence, and the differences between fact and opinion." Let's say you have one narrative from a soldier saying, "No one I knew got killed. We're doing fine here in Iraq." And then there's that pesky statistic that US military death tolls have reached over 2,000. Which one would a logical thinker rely on to determine the casualty rate of Americans in Iraq? I would choose survey results and hard statistics over one single story from one soldier. I think you are the one who quoted something that barely supported his contentions.
I would like you to divulge the source for this $500,000,000,000 figure. Since reggietodd was kind enough to divulge his source, it seems fair that you do the same. I *eagerly* await your answer.
How can this soldier assume without justification that people's who's eyes and hearts he has seen will not change? No offense to reggietodd or any of our troops but the letter/email/whatever sounded incredibly forced. It read like one of those mass emails that go all over the internet that came from somebody's friend in Iraq when the whole time it was just a bunch of horse**** put together by someone else. I dont know why I come into these threads honestly.
It is his opinion, but he is more likely to form a better opinion since he has seen the eyes and hearts. Perhaps you need to read less of those mass emails because it sounds to me that you are very jaded.
we're talking about the majority iraqi insurgents here right? has the soldier knon them from they were young? so they're evil from the day they were born? or are they became insurgents post agrressive war on their country + occupation + torture???
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! The day anyone recognizes you as a "master of critical thinking" is the day GWB earns a commendation from the UN. So far, I have not seen evidence of expertise in any area save demagoguery. And you simply make up wild stories about liberals and accuse them of "defend[ing] terrorists." Do you still maintain that there was a connection between Iraq and 9/11? Do you continue to believe that there are WMDs in Iraq? Critical thinking is not your strong suit. Anecdotal evidence is simply not evidence as you are quick to point out when anti-war soldiers write their opinions. Yes, you certainly are.
Reggietodd, thanks for posting this letter. Very powerful and moving. Meowgi and Azadre: You two are proof positive why the stereotype exists that liberals do not support the troops. You two are incredibly ungrateful for the efforts that these brave men are undertaking for YOUR and my freedom. Truly pathetic.
Yes, we are talking about the insurgents. I do not know the answers to your other questions, your guess is as good as mine.
im not a big political person, but : 1. the world isnt a hippy utopian society 2. this country was built on war 3. pretty much every country in the world began as some conflict or war 4. the world hasnt really changed at all. always in conflict mr meowgi, there has to be balance, if there is too much peace tree hugging vegetarian hippies, we'd be rolled over like france by the germans. if there are too many angry trigger happy people, we'd be the germans. pre 9/11, people here in the us thought this was utopia where there was peace. not true, people will always hate and kill people. planet of the apes: ape will not kill ape.. that was violated. what is working for peace anyway? you can help starving kids, that's not working for peace, that's helping hungry kids. to work for peace, you have to be at a place where there is NO PEACE. so i believe what we are doing is for peace. those activists who went to iraq who are getting killed by the 'terorrists', you think they wishing they were packing a desert eagle? you think the terrorists care if they hate the USA and hate the occupation etc.? nope. "people are always yelling peace this peace that, if someone wants a piece of mine, then I have to pull out my piece"
Ok, taking a step back... I think it's probably important to take this for what it is. From other first hand reports I've seen I tend to agree that this is a fairly reasonable synopsis of how many soldiers feel. I've seen other more detailed accounts that soldiers on the ground believe in what they are doing because they feel they are creating a better Iraq. This is good to know. It implies that there is a small chance of soldiers going Lindy Englund on average Iraqis. But it's no more than that. I am happy that these soldiers believe in what they are doing. I appreciate the very difficult job that they do. I believe that the soldiers are trying to make Iraq a better place. I don't think, however, that they necessarily have either the training or the perspective to make legitimate judgments on the wider designs of US foreign policy. A company wouldn't rely on it's junior partners to make judgments about the health of the company, nor would they allow them to set company policies. It's good to know that they are trying to do good. From what I've seen they often do it. That doesn't have any bearing on the merits or faults of the war whatsoever. Soldiers soldier. Politicians make policy. It is about as appropriate to give Dubbya an M4 and dump him in Fallujah as it is to rely on the opinions of professional soldiers in determining whether we should go to war or not. Good news, but not germaine to discussions of the merits or faults of the war in Iraq.
Because I question the authenticity of an email on a BBS, I do not support the troops? I didn't realize the plentiplaint could be so r****ded. Guess what? The best way to support the troops is to keep them alive.
