OK, so stats don't mean ****. Then why do people constantly throw up Steve's stats when arguing that we should keep him? Because stats do mean something... not everything, obviously, but a hell of a lot. I've been hot for Brand on the Rocks for a long time, and, if we got him, half way through next season everyone would be wondering how the hell we got by without him. But I don't think we're gonna get him, so it's a moot point, imo. I do think Francis will be dealt, however, just not for Elton.
oh... i just though you meant "touches" not shots. Cat doesn't shoot the ball every time he touches. You are right about Cat though, he averaged 13.5 shots per game last year. Elton Brand averaged 14.2. Meanwhile MoT averaged 10. I really don't think Brand would be taking shots away from anybody.
But Francis has stats and some success. Brand's stats may not mean **** but they apparently mean **** when it comes to helping his team win. I posted this in another thread a while back, who can a player of Brand's so called caliber let his team go on a + 10 game losing streak like the Clippers were at the end of the season. A real leader would at least carry his team to one win in those games. Brand puts up great stats, but when the game is on the line, he doesn't get that key basket, block, steal, or rebound, that are the deciding factors in so many games. He just puts up good stats, but at the end of the day, you didn't even know he was there. At least Steve leaves his mark on games. He impacts winning, and if you trade Steve, you better get a player in return who does that.
the last time i check Brand is not being as to be a one man show if he comes to Houston. The whole point is to have a strong front court TANDEM. the player you are describing, one that puts games away. c'mon how many of those are there in the NBA? Kobe. Duncan. We're gonna get neither for Francis.
I think we see things differently. I see Brand's game as a low post game. I also see Yao's game as a low post game. While Brand gets some baskets w/ putbacks, its naive to think thats how he gets all of his points. He <b> will need </b> the ball in the low post to use all his potential. So now you have 2 guys, both demanding the ball in the block. And now your backcourt is only average at best. And your fast break has not improved any. Plus we have no one left to penetrate at all as Cat is strictly a catch and shoot player now. This kinda reminds of the Hakeem/Barkley era. The only reason it worked out effectively, (though it was for a short time), is that Barkley sacrificed a lot of him game and just concentrated on rebounding. But he was 36, and content on winning. We cant ask Brand to do that. We cant ask a 25 year old to just concentrate on rebounding, blocking shots, and occasional post ups. Brand is a good player to have, but not with Yao Ming. Remember, the Rockets need a player that really is Mo + Cato combined into one. Is Brand that player? We know he can do what Cato can do, but better. But can Brand hit that 18 footer that Mo hits? Only occasionaly. If he cant hit that shot, then whats going to stop teams from doubling Yao anyways? I think Sheed actually fits better w/ Yao. He can make defenses pay for doubling Yao, and can play solid D. And he can be had w/o giving up Francis. My whole point is this. We need a balance with Yao Ming. We dont need another domitant low post player like Brand. I would rather keep Francis, or trade him for a better small forward or guard.
once again, brand is to much of a low post player, him and yao wont have room to operate. They could do that same like last year, this time leave brand open and double yao.
Brand reminds me of a young Karl Malone. I know, I know, everyone here hates Malone, but shouldn't that tell you something of the quality of a player like that. His hard-nosed (dirty?) play endeared him to his hometown fans forever, and I see a lot of that in Brand. Besides, the NBA playoffs always come down to size. Excluding Jordan's Bulls 7 of the last 10 champions have featured the league's best big man: Spurs (99, 03) Tim Duncan Lakers (00-02) Shaq Houston (94-95) Hakeem Pairing Yao with Brand, as well as keeping Cato and MoT for backups, would give the Rockets the best 4-man frontcourt in the league. And the best part is we would still have the exception to bring in a solid, veteran PG (Barry, Snow?) to replace Steve. Brand is exactly the type of no-nonsense, intense brute we need next to Yao to help him flourish.
I really love those trade proposals. Does anybody actually have any sources that says the Clips are interested in dealing Brand or that he's interested in playing for the Rockets before coming up with those?
Elton Brand has a range up to about 17 feet. Not that I've had a chance to measure from where he stands to the basket; let's say he has that Karl Malone shot from the elbow. I refuse to believe that Yao and Elton could not co-exist on the floor. They'd probably have 32 mpg together. Opposing teams would have quite a challenge taking it in on those guys. Offensively, they might bump into each other from time to time, but not so much that it'd be a glaring problem. If we'd have a problem, it'd be, What do we do with our other players? Trade Cat and Cato (or Mo) for a point guard and small forward?
Don't get too wrapped up in the Brand-Malone comparison; young Malone's offense was based on running & pick and rolls (obviously) while Brand is more of a back to the basket guy. Conversely, on defense, Brand is a longarmed shotblocker while Malone is a ball-stripper. Brand sometimes has trouble with quicker PFs (see 2002 Worlds)
Just for fun, I looked at the games during January, February and March, when Yao went on his streak of good to great games and we thought we should start buying tickets for the Finals. ESPN has the Gamecast feature that tracks made and missed shots. If you put your mouse on either one, it shows who took the shot... it gives you an idea about where players like to shoot the ball. I specifically looked at games where Yao was the leading scorer for the Rocks. We went 12 and 5 during games when Yao was the leading scorer. In those 17 games, Yao took the majority of his shots in the left paint area and the left side of the court outside of the paint four times. (with 2 wins and 2 loses... both loses against the Spurs) I was surprised, because my impression was that he likes to shoot from the left, but the truth is that he shoots as much or more from the right or the top of the key. Now this doesn't include layups or dunks. One thing I agree on about Brand is that he makes layups and dunks like a madman. And he rarely misses them, unlike Yao... who's still adjusting to having them contested, I guess. Anyway, My other impression is that Brand likes to operate from the left side. I think that impression is probably accurate, but I didn't check that out the same way I looked at Yao. At any rate, I think the two would go very well together. I would sure love to get Brand so we could find out! BTW, those 4 OT games we played in March really stand out... 4 OT's in 7 games. I think that was the "downfall" of Yao for the rest of the season. He played heavy minutes (for him) within that period and I don't think he ever recovered from it. (at least we won 3 of the 4 games )
Even if you guys are bent on saying that BRANDS teams dont do well and succed, and we shouldnt trade for him, well this is YAOs team. I say do it... Then trade Mo for some nice PG
I don't care about getting another Karl Malone. I would much rather have another John Stockton. Karl Malone wouldn't be jack without the best dish man passing him the ball on the break.
New Jack nailed it. Ask yourself this, let us assume the best FA PG we could add via the MLE is Brent Barry. You could also try adding Daniels or Arroyo or Alston for the 1.5 mil player exemtpion. The best FA PF we could add for the MLE is something like Swift or Etan Thomas. I think the Rockets team would be much stronger with Brand and Barry playing the 4 and the 1 than Francis and Swift/Thomas. It will be fair easier to find an adeqaute PG for the Rockets system than an adequate 4--thus you pull this trade if available. BTW if you want to make the Hakeem/PF pair comparison, I see Brand doing more what Otis Thorpe did for Hakeem than Barkley. Brand is like a little bit more physical and shot blocking version of Thorpe--not capable of being the #1 guy on a good team but a heck of a complimentary player. Brand is good enough offensively you can't ignore him (unlike Cato), but his strength is defense and rebounding. Probably 65% of the offense would go through Yao, 20% through Brand (mainly when Yao was out) and 15% Mobley (when he was hot or had a real favorable match-up).
http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/o...PORTS&subsection=PRO&year=2004&month=5&day=28 Brand's knee, finger undergo minor surgery By ART THOMPSON III The Orange County Register LOS ANGELES – Clippers forward Elton Brand underwent two surgical procedures Wednesday. Team physician Tony Daly performed arthroscopic surgery to repair a minor cartilage tear in Brand's left knee. Hand specialist Roy Meals performed surgery on Brand's right ring finger to remove calcium deposits. Brand is expected to recover from both surgeries in 3-4 weeks. "It was just something that he needed to do as far as cleanup for what bothered him some this season,'' Clippers coach Mike Dunleavy said. "He'll fully recover.'' Brand missed 13 games last season after suffering a hairline fracture of the right foot before the opener in Japan against Seattle. He received regular treatment for the problems with his knee and hand but did not miss a game because of either injury. Brand averaged 20 points, 10.3 rebounds and 2.23 blocks per game in 2003-2004.
According to so called Rox fans, Francis is the worst PG in the league, therefore could never be an upgrade over Dooling. Remember, Rox fans would rather have a High School PG running the offense than Steve so why would the Clips want a 3-time all star who is a threat for a triple double every single night Peace.
Dork, if the Rockets fans thought SF wasn't a good basketball player why would they talk about getting another all-star (Brand, T-Mac) in return for him. It is not about SF immense individual basketball ability--it is about fit.
generally it's true... but we're talking about K. Dooling here... take it from a diehard Mizzou fan. he's not the best that ever came out of the ole black and gold. Doug Smith Anthony Peeler Melvin Booker Keyon Dooling Kareem Rush although... you know what? if Arthur Johnson is still around in the second round... the Rockets should DEFINITELY pick him up. he's a better Rafael Araujo.
