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Either start Lin, or bring in a new starting PG, Bev ain't cuttin' it.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by OldfanofTmac, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. beastlyball

    beastlyball Member

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    He played in the triangle offense which doesn't have many set plays, but rather set options. He was a solid 3 point shooter and defender in his younger years. You obviously only saw him during his later years with the Lakers and the Thunders.
     
  2. Hrock

    Hrock Rookie

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    Lin deserves critcism last year because he had some things to improve on top of not being given a chance to play through mistakes since Mchale clearly didn't trust him. He played a lot better post All-star break and coming into this season got even better. Some players take several season to improve, Lin did it in one summer. This is one criticism that is hilarious, he had a horrible playoff performance even thought he couldn't lift his arm above his head...which affects your shooting and dribbling. But this is what you use? A 2006 "veteran" poster, and with high reputation no less. You must be trolling. Every player including Lin deserves criticism, but your response here is just special. From a veteran no less.
     
  3. tonman

    tonman Member

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    frustratingly, this is yet another fallacy. the need for the PF/4 to space the floor.

    yes you don't want two post guys right next to each other but you don't have to have one of them at the 3 point arc. from what I see from jones, he shoots from 3 about 20% of the time. the other times, he's in the paint on drives or put backs. jones is shooting .320 from 3 which is worse than Beverly. we don't need a forward that can shoot from 3 point range. we just need a forward that can knock down open jumpers. thus the infatuations with LMA.

    you are right that asik AND howard cannot space the floor enough for EITHER of them to operate but for 1.8 3FGA per game, I don't think there's much gain by having jones over asik IF the offensive scheme is adequate.

    you're thinking that the only way to create space is to put someone at a certain spot to draw their player away. perhaps movement and back screens and maybe offensive plays designed to establish post position would work with both of them. the idea of clearing a side out and throwing the ball into the post is the lazy man's offense. it's not like two bigs like howard and asik have never played together ever before.
     
  4. tonman

    tonman Member

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    the only reason Beverly would be finishing games is because harden would be chucking up shots down the stretch and handling the ball. nothing there indicates "toughness" for Beverly. just the fact that all he's asked to do is play defense and shoot open shots if open. where's the toughness there?
     
  5. thesonofsam

    thesonofsam Member

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    You need to remember, anytime Lin plays bad it is because of Mchale, the other players or injury. He is infallible.
     
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Guys.... this is irreversible evidence that Lin cannot do well in the playoffs... 4 games...

    And Harden can never do well in the Finals.... Using your logic.
     
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  7. EnergyGuy

    EnergyGuy Rookie

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    How could I forget? When all else fails, initiate Jeremy Lin's playoff performance. Ignore the whole team played bad first game. Ignore Lin played decent in second game until injury. Ignore injury had impact on performance. And ignore Beverley got beat pretty badly by Westbrook before Westbrook was injured, and still got beat badly by Reggie Jackson
     
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  8. Rocknation

    Rocknation Member

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    because you say so?
     
  9. Rocknation

    Rocknation Member

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    He was excellent tonight. Hopefully Lin can sustain this. ONly time will tell
     
  10. zdrav

    zdrav Member

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    Actually, when all else fails, they resort to blaming Lin for being having the audacity to get injured.
     
  11. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    Not sure I agree with this controlling the pace of the game stuff. The entire offense runs through our two spot. Which is why when Lin & Bev are on the court w/out Harden you see Bev bring the ball up and Lin play the James Harden role. and more importantly when Harden is injured you see Lin having huge games. Lin doesn't have to control the tempo of the game that is Harden's job because that is how our system runs.
     
  12. cw3k

    cw3k Member

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    You always put your scorers on the court when the game is tight. Why you want to put a offensive liability when the game is tight?

    Beverley has been abuse by all good pg so far this year
     
  13. zdrav

    zdrav Member

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    I'm ashamed to have realized this so late, but I think that the reason that Harden's been forced by the coaching staff to play PG so much is that management wants to cheap out at the PG position by having Harden be a 2-for-1 deal.

    In previous posts, I've noted that not a single good team has a starting non-rookie PG who makes less than about $8 million. So even if you think that Lin is being overpaid, his replacement isn't going to be any cheaper, unless you think that Canaan is going to step in and be an NBA starter.

    But there's an exception to this rule: the Miami Heat. Mario Chalmers doesn't make starting PG money, especially one who plays on a contender, because LeBron is the true point guard/forward on that team. LeBron makes the PG position almost obsolete and drastically less valuable.

    Is that what the Rockets are trying to do? Make Harden a kind of mini-LeBron? Parsons is going to get paid his $10-12 million or so once his contract runs out. And maybe the organization doesn't fully trust TJones to be the starting PF who'll help them get a championship, so they're looking for another hefty contract at that spot.

    So money has to be skimped somewhere. It's entirely possible that the organization has decided that since Harden is a good playmaker, they will have to sacrifice the PG slot.

    It's not that they don't like Lin. It's that they're afraid of becoming dependent on him and are trying to wean the team off of him. They love Bev mostly because he's so cheap. And if they can get the team built to play with an $800 000 starting PG, then they can be serious contenders AND stay under the salary cap. And if Bev wants a raise, then he'll get shipped right out as Morey looks for his replacement in the D-League or Euroleague again.
     
  14. dxdx

    dxdx Member

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    Way to go with the cherry picking. :rolleyes:

    From a quick Google search, here's the other info you missed out:

    '96: Drafted Ray Allen but traded him for Stephen Marbury.
    '98: Drafted Rasho Nesterovic over Al Harrington
    '99: Drafted Wally Szczerbiak over Marion, Jason Terry, Andre Miller; William Avery over Artest, James Posey and Andrei Kirilenko
    '00: Got busted for the under table deal for Joe Smith, lost 4 1st round picks
    '05: Drafted McCants over Granger
    '05: Traded Cassell for Marko Jaric and let Sprewell walk because they were unhappy with contract negotiations.
    '06: Drafted Brandon Roy and trades him for Randy Foye
    '07: Drafted Brewer over Noah, Spencer Hawes, Thaddeus Young and Stuckey.

    Educate yourself.
     
  15. langal

    langal Contributing Member

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    I use the Miami Heat game from 2012 to prove that Lin is a scrub. It was only 150 games ago.
     
  16. Yao4REAL

    Yao4REAL Member

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    Kind of funny that Westbrook is out and Beverley isn't there to meet him in our next next game. It's like Westbrook is saying...i better stay injured because i don't want to be harass by Beverley lol.
     
  17. THE DR34M

    THE DR34M Rookie

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    yeah right, that's exactly what Westbrook is thinking.
     
  18. tonman

    tonman Member

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    regarding chalmers, he makes 4M this season. that puts him 5th on the Heat in terms of salary this season, 340K less then Udonis Haslem (a big). if LeBron, wade, and Bosh weren't making 19M+, chalmers would be making a bit more. probably not 8M but 5-6M range sounds reasonable. and if he was playing elsewhere, he might do well enough on another team that that team might pay him a bit more. this comparison is not apples to apples.

    as for Lin, it's not that Houston is trying to go cheap on the PG spot. it's that Houston has 3 PGs Beverly (1 year), Lin (3 years), AB (5 years) and their PF experience is Jones (1 year), DMo (1 year), GSmith (2 years oft injured). if the twin towers experienced worked, then they would be fine with Asik (3 years) next to Howard with the youngsters developing off the bench. but since Asik is forcing their hands a bit, then trading Asik has to return a veteran big man.

    it is US fans that have turned Asik into returning all-star caliber PF for an Asik trade - not Houston brass. they may want the best in return but as you recall what trade offers were, those players weren't any more talented than what we have, just more experienced.

    Ryan Anderson who only makes 8.5M this season is the kind of player Houston is looking at. We're not talking a huge salary here. The Lin/Asik salaries only count 8M towards cap next season, not 15M so from a cap standpoint it is still 8M for Lin/Asik.

    For 2014
    Dwight PF/C 21.4M
    Harden SG 14.7M
    Lin PG 14.9M (8.3M cap)
    Jones PF 1.6M
    DMo PF 1.5M
    Garcia SG 1.3M (Player Option)
    Parsons SF 1M
    Beverly PG 900K
    Canaan PG 800K
    Covington SF 800K
    Scola 6.5M amnesty (no cap)

    You would expect Canaan and Covington to replace AB and Casspi next season. They probably let Brewer go depending on who they draft. That leaves Asik and GSmith.

    Lin, Beverly, Canaan
    Harden, Garcia
    Parsons, Covington
    Jones, DMo
    Howard

    This is the reason why we are looking at the 4/5 spot for any trades. Players available would be AB, Casspi, Asik, GSmith. If you use any other player in trades, that means they have to be replaced also or one of the above players not moved.

    Moving on to 2015, Beverly, Canaan, Covington, Jones, DMo are all still under contracts. That means the Rockets could still sign Parsons to a good size contract and resign Lin after signing a FA. depending on contract salaries, you're talking 74-75M in salaries. if you think the core you have is solid enough, then when bench players reach end of contract, you have bird rights and pay them what they're worth or let them go and bring in new bench players. the core remains young and with this group you have plenty of years to try to win a championship.

    if you go your route and keep PB as a cheap alternative and let Lin go, you're not gaining anything because you only have room for another big time FA unless you trade Lin for someone in return where you can resign afterwards. and in that case you're going for another position other than PG because of your logic but it's already filled with Howard at C, Harden at SG, and Parsons at SF and some player from an Asik trade/FA signing.
     
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  19. pacmania

    pacmania Member

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    Yup. Kevin Mchale pretty much screwed up the Timberwolves so bad they're still hurting until now. Imagine losing FOUR FIRST ROUND PICKS for an under-the-table deal for JOE SMITH.

    And then capping that off by trading the star player to his beloved boston celtics. And the celtics ended up winning the championship that year.

    Mchale was a man with CHARACTER and COMPETENCE issues before the Rockets hired him.
     
  20. Crunchyball

    Crunchyball Rookie

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    nah used to believe that. but i have changed my opinion on that. in these last 2 games especially the spurs. I really like the way the team flowed.
     

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