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Either start Lin, or bring in a new starting PG, Bev ain't cuttin' it.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by OldfanofTmac, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. Pumpedupkicks

    Pumpedupkicks Member

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    Isaiah Thomas is legit good, just stuck on a bad team. Glad new management traded GV and put IT where he belongs, in the starting lineup. Dude is hands down the best player on that team.
     
  2. fxbillie

    fxbillie Member

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    If Bev gets back healthy, Lin will be on the bench again doesn't matter how he plays in this stretch. McHale already prequalified this treatment of Lin by saying that he is the better pg to help the 2nd unit. He never says Lin is a better pg for the first unit. LOL. So if Lin wants to start again for a team, it will be somewhere else. Tough but a reality for JLin here. Hope he will accept this role and excel on it.
     
  3. Chris Jent MVP

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    I don't think the situation is nearly as complicated as many perceive it to be.

    It's obvious that Les likes Lin. Morey also has good stats and speaks highly of Lin.

    I think it is more simply, McHale is an old schooler who needs a longer time to buy in to Lin's playing style.
     
  4. roxxy

    roxxy Member

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    The issue I have w/ Bev and this whole concept of our PG playing a smaller role is that bev commands no defensive attention or game plan. As a result this makes it harder for other guys and puts the playmaking responsibility solely in Hardens hands and gives him a massive pass on defense which is incredibly undeserved. Starting Lin would reduce the offensive burden on Harden (so he can play some D), open up the floor even more because you have three perimeter guys who are threats on the drive and from the perimeter forcing the D to flex even more and we have DH12 down low. Not sure why people don't understand how having a guard play a "small role" is a detriment to the team because it weakens spacing.
     
  5. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    It all depends on what time of team you have.

    Derek Fisher was the perfect complement to Kobe Bryant, and he did next to nothing on offense.
     
  6. pnr

    pnr Member

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    They ran a triangle offense and had an excellent playmaker in the post in Gasol. Fisher was also a good 3 point shooter and defender (in his prime).
     
  7. Panda23

    Panda23 Member

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    Will never be that highly regarded though, given he is afflicted with midgetitis
     
  8. Chris Jent MVP

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    That's it, perfectly said.


    Rockets offense is entirely different from Fisher's time with the Lakers.
     
  9. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    That's not even close to true. If you understood the Triangle Offense then you would know that Fisher played a key role in spacing out the floor. He wasn't a primary focus but the system doesn't work if you have guys on the floor who aren't threats to make the open shot during the rotations. Otherwise the defense can simply collapse to the triangle and cheat on defending the open perimeter shooter.

    Fisher is a career .371 3-point shooter. He had 3 seasons where he shot over .400 behind the arc, and 8 seasons where he was above .390. In addition to being a good defender.

    Derek Fisher is who Patrick Beverley aspires to be.

    The spacing concepts of the Triangle, by the way, are not dissimilar to how the Rockets play, and why a lot of us are confused as to why you wouldn't want Lin on the floor for ~35 minutes per game. (The "starting" vs. "bench" argument is a straw man for a half-dozen different reasons - the real debate is why Beverley averages significantly more minutes when they are both available to play, even though Lin is clearly the better player.)

    With Beverley as a real offensive liability so far this season (.333 3P%), teams have picked up and are cheating him on defense. It's easier to double Harden on the perimeter if your assignment is Patrick Beverley because you can leave him open. Similarly, it's easier to double Dwight in the paint because Beverley is not a threat to drive. It's clearly evident when you compare the offense when Harden has to play with Beverley vs. when he is playing with Lin. He has to bear a much larger offensive burden, which makes him much more prone to lapse on the defense. With Lin on the floor, he knows he is free to pass early, move without the ball, and create spacing for everyone else while he commands defensive attention. Without it, he's forced to do the fancy dribbling and drive into the paint to create something on his own. That significantly increases the amount of attrition on his body over the season, because it takes more effort to push those drives, and you take a beating when you do it (yes, even Harden gets hit most of the time).

    This isn't a Lin vs. Beverley issue. It's a Beverley Issue, period. Substitute Lin for anyone who can hit the 3-point shot, and you still have the exact same problem. He's fine as a backup, but he's averaging 31.5 MPG. Even taking into account Lin's unavailability, that's a ridiculously high number of minutes for a guy who is essentially playing at a bench player level. What should be happening is that Harden and Lin should both be slotted for around 35 MPG, and even if you split up their minutes so they had as little overlap as possible, that leaves just 14 minutes where only one of them is on the floor. Meaning you only need the backup guards for those 14 minutes to take the place of either Harden or Lin.

    Instead what you have is Harden being ridden into the ground because he's playing next to Beverley for 20-30 MPG, and Lin is being ridden into the ground because he's playing with what feels like the ENTIRE bench (including, yes, Beverley) for the other 20-30 minutes.

    The rotations and minutes make absolutely no sense. Right now the coaches are literally overplaying Beverley to the detriment of their best players.

    This is almost the same issue with the Twin Towers. It doesn't matter how good Asik is, if he's not as good as Howard then your #1 goal is to maximize Howard's minutes (regardless of the lineup). Substitute Howard for Harden, and Asik for Beverley, and it's an eerily similar problem that somehow developed into an entirely different solution.

    It's weird because in the other case, no one thinks that Asik makes a better forward than Jones. Asik is a better player, but he can't space the floor so he can't play the forward position. Nobody has any problem telling Asik that he needs to sit down because it's just not working. But even though everyone ostensibly agrees that Lin is a better player than Beverley for the exact same position (except maybe not as much on defense although that is exceedingly debatable given what we've seen and the defensive metrics available), for some reason saying that Beverley needs to get off the floor is tantamount to a rebellion in these parts.

    Again, this is not about Lin vs. Beverley. It's about the guy not being fit to play the position for such heavy minutes. You could give half of Beverley's minutes to Brooks and I'm pretty sure you'd see the same if not better overall results, because what the team loses in defense they would more than make up for in offense (and you would probably get more defensive effort from Harden in return for taking the load off of his shoulders). You don't want the backup players on the floor that much - it means everyone else has to pick up the slack and/or you are leaving better players off the floor in exchange.

    The only reason it's being forced into a Lin vs. Beverley debate is because the coaching staff (read: McHale) refuse to rotate player minutes properly, and therefore the only way you're going to get less Beverley on the floor is to replace his "starter" status with someone else (Lin) so that he stops playing over 30 MPG.
     
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  10. zdrav

    zdrav Member

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    Parsons and Beverley were still actually picked in the draft though, unlike Lin.
     
  11. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    I wish it really was all about Beverley, I really do.

    The fact is that Kevin McHale and his staff of coaches do not feel that they can trust Jeremy Lin. He is suspect in a few areas where Patrick Beverly is not.

    1. Taking care of the ball.
    2. Controlling tempo in a tight game.

    If we were in an intense 7 game series for a championship, would you really want Lin on the floor for 36 minutes? Or would you rather have Patrick Beverley?

    To me, it is rather close, and Jeremy Lin has yet to have 1 good playoff game. Whilst Beverly has shown us that he is a knife fighter with huge nuts.

    All that being said, I have and always will believe that Jeremy and James should be the starting back court for 35+ minutes a night, even If Patrick Beverly is finishing off games when things get tough.
     
  12. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    In 4 playoff games, Jeremy Lin has had 16 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists and 8 turnovers, total.


    While shooting 25% from the field, and 17% from three.
     
  13. platypus

    platypus Member

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    It is only fair to mention that he was injured and not anywhere near 100%
     
  14. zdrav

    zdrav Member

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    You do realize that he was playing with a significant injury during most of those games, right? He had a bad game 1, but so did everyone else.

    Besides, if you were skeptical of Linsanity because of sample size (as everyone should've been to some degree), it's insane to deem Beverley a clutch playoff hero after, what, 4-5 games?

    This is Isiah Thomas logic re: Jerome James.

    Let that sink in.
     
  15. conquistador#11

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    that's nice and all but Jackson brought a gun to that fight. =/
    18,20, and 17 pts performances by the italian stallion, reggie jackson.
     
  16. Panda23

    Panda23 Member

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    But why be fair amirite
     
  17. gene18

    gene18 Rookie

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    The author is speaking truth to power.
     
  18. Crunchyball

    Crunchyball Rookie

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    bro those not helping your cause.
     
  19. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    No.
     
  20. yummyhawtsauce

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    lol not sure why people say that Lin can't play in a playoff series because this is inconclusive since he has been injured and played minor minutes. He did play 1 game and it was a bad one. The rest were injured minutes. I would like to see how Lin handles it this year.
     

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