Egyptians resist Morsi; US-supported military to step in on Morsi's side

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22098799

hoorah, hoorah, the military will save everybody.

Whether or not someone associated with political Islam commits terrible crimes, or somebody commits terrible crimes to suppress political Islam, they are terrible crimes nonetheless, and to be condemned. The military is no saint, and considering its' past and present actions (arrest warrants for all Muslim Brotherhood leaders, shutting down MB media channels, and active participation in killings and tortures throughout the protests), is absolutely not to be applauded. I don't understand why people have more faith in the notoriously corrupt Egyptian military.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-lando/egyptian-military_b_1114132.html

 

Morsi could have tried to address the alleged corruption. Instead, he wrecked the economy, endorsed death threats, appointed murderous terrorists as governors.

 

The economy was going down the s**tter no matter who was in power. Financial markets don't like revolutions, period. In any case, so long as the military is allowed to carve out fiefdoms for itself, there is no hope for structural reforms that could help Egypt.

I am not saying Morsi did good. I am saying that in order to engage people in the political process, you can't just take any leader who was incompetent and bad, arrest his party members, shut down their media channels, and proclaim new leaders! Democracy relies on good faith. You're perhaps right that Morsi may not have embraced that 100%, but how in the hell is the military stamping out a democratically elected government a constructive way to address that?

As for challenging the corruption in the military---good luck with that. Check out what just happened.

 

I'll give you an example:

This guy here, Assem Abdel Maged, isn't from the Muslim Brotherhood, but from the same camp.

German author in hiding after receiving Islamist death threats

A German author of Egyptian origin has gone into hiding after having received death threats from Islamists. Hamed Abdel-Samad is one of Germany’s highest-profile experts on Islam.
The news of the death threats against Abdel-Samad was announced by his publisher on Tuesday.
"Hamed Abdel-Samad is taking the call for him to be murdered seriously and has gone into hiding," the head of the Munich-based Droemer Knaur publishing house, Margit Ketterle, said in a statement.

The calls for the author to be killed apparently came after a speech he gave in Cairo last week in which he criticized radical Islam and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, accusing them of spreading "religious fascism."
Abdel-Sadam reportedly also said he did not intend to insult Islam but had a right to express his views.
Shortly after his speech Assem Abdel Maged, a leading member of the radical Egyptian group Gamaa Islamiya, used a television appearance to declare Abdel-Samad an "infidel."
Numerous Islamist web sites subsequently published a picture of the author with the words "wanted dead" written above.

"We are shocked by the persecution of our author and support him as much as we can," said Ketterle, who spoke of a "smear campaign that came directly from the sphere of the Egyptian president, Mohamed Morsi."
She also said Abdel-Samad stood for "critical education," not only in Germany.
The German government's human rights commissioner, Markus Löning also expressed shock at the news, saying there was "nothing to justify" such death threats.
"I expect the Egyptian government to clearly and unequivocally distance itself from [the threats]," Löning said. He also called on the government in Cairo to ensure his safety.
The 41-year-old Abdel-Samad was born in Egypt but moved to Germany at the age of 23. The political scientist who now holds German citizenship has published several books critical of Islam. In 2010 he became known to a broader audience when he featured in a five part television series in which he joined Polish-born German-Jewish journalist Henryk Broder on a road trip through Germany.

http://www.dw.de/german-author-in-hiding-after-receiving-islamist-death-threats/a-16874970

It's people like that terrorist Assem Abdel Maged who are getting arrested. For you to act like they are victims is laughable, uninformed and ludicrous.

Oh, do you want to know Morsi's response to what the German foreign minister said? His response to this terrorist Assem Abdel Maged having made death threats and asking his followers to murder Hamed Abdel Samad?

He hugged him.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/q94LozdNFr4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

For you to act like these terrorists are victims...unbelievable. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And their television channels and websites supported the calls for murder - made them, even. And you whine that they got closed? They were inciting violence and murder.

 

Here is more from Assem Abdel Maged, one of the 300 who are getting arrested:

They also waved the Brotherhood's flag — a green banner with two swords — and carried Morsi posters and portraits.

"This is a revolution, and there is no other one!" they chanted. Speakers onstage praised the military and the crowd responded with, "The army and the people are one hand," seeking to keep the military on the side of the president.

"Those who burn and those who kill are the traitors of this nation," Brotherhood preacher Safwat Hegazi told the crowd. "Mr. President, use a heavier hand, your kind heart won't be any use. ... We want to complete our revolution and purify our country."

Assem Abdel-Maged, leader of the formerly militant Gamaa Islamiya group, threatened to "sever heads" of opposition supporters if they attacked the military. Rafai Taha, one of the leading figures of Gamaa Islamiya, was also onstage, next to Brotherhood leaders.


http://www.leaderpost.com/news/Thou...mist+president+rally+Cairo/8594460/story.html

 

This multiplied by 1 billion.

 

Egypt accumulated a lot of dollar debt during Mubarak's reign. The dollar reserves dwindled under Morsi and inflation was tough. The government was last bartering for a $5 billion IMF loan and receiving other loans from Qatar. It will be interesting to see who supports Egypt after this.

 

right, and the military actually went around and chopped heads off and tortured people.

Good luck getting accountability there.

Can you find exact reasons for why all 300 were arrested, rather than posting statements that at best might indict one person for basically doing the exact same thing as Sarah Palin with her gunsights poster?

No, you can't, because as of this moment, the military isn't revealing anything. Swell. Let's all find newspaper articles and indict all of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood for alleged crimes. Guilty before proven innocent. I like it.

 

Chopping heads off is an Islamist thing. There might be some Islamists in the military. Can you provide specific proof for every individual in the military who allegedly "chopped heads off"?

If you think that is the same thing as something Sarah Palin did, then it only confirms that you are a complete idiot.

 

I cannot believe to what lengths people will go to justify their cognitive dissonace---

Your allegations are touching, but unproven, to say the least. You have the nerve to say the military's corruption is alleged, then you turn around and paint a hug as indictiment of criminality.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/w...its-allegiance-to-its-privileges.html?hp&_r=0

hooray

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/10/egypt-army-torture-killings-revolution

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/int...egyptian-army-torture-disappearances-document

Full report here, if you want to comb for instances of your alleged Islamists.

Unlike, you know, the hidden details of the arbitrary arrests of 300 people seemingly without cause.

hooray

 

Please provide details of how you arrive at this conclusion, other than your apparent bias.

I would say that death threats, incitement to murder, and violence, are sufficient cause.

 

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KbJ1ucSmIcA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

I arrived at the conclusion that the arrests were being conducted in secret, because they are being conducted in secret.

You arrived at the conclusion that the 300 Brotherhood members were preaching violence and death threats based on a newspaper article that didn't even talk about a Brotherhood member. Presumption of guilt before innocence.

When presented with evidence that the military was responsible for gruesome crimes, and not threatened ones, you focused instead on conjuring up motives for secret arrests by said military, which cannot be trusted due to sworn testimony referenced beforehand.

How about you provide details on how you arrived to this bias, given your conclusions? A condemnation of the Egyptian military would be nice. Spell it out nice and large.

 

great, now you're posting Youtube videos.

very admissible evidence in a court of law

 

How is an arrest not conducted "in secret"? Do you expect them to have a TV team with them for every arrest? One that transmits a live stream to your mom's basement? How stupid is this statement, even?

You are totally clueless. Go back to pretending that you know something about economics.

 

usually when you arrest someone, it's good to say why they are being arrested.

As of now, details are very sparse. Apparantly warrents have been issued, but for what, nobody knows.

Pending charges? Your guess is as good as mine. That's what I mean by secret.

Anyways, get a handle on yourself. There's no need for personal attacks outside of the scope of the discussion. Join me in condemning the military, or you can bask in conjuring crimes for one side, while being silent on hard evidence of crimes on the other. Your personal bias has never shone through harder.

 

Here is an example:

The prosecutor's office, a day after the overthrow, ordered Badie's arrest, and his deputy Khairat el-Shater, sources told Reuters. The two were reportedly wanted for inciting the killing of protesters in front of the Brotherhood's headquarters in Cairo's southern neighborhood called Mokattam, the AFP reported.
"This is the first time in the history of the Brotherhood that it is the people and not the regime that are acting against the movement"
- Ibrahim al-Hudaibi, a prominent former member of the group
Al Ahram, a major state newspaper, reported that eight protesters were killed while attacking the headquarters, The New York Times reported


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/04/arrests-ordered-for-leaders-muslim-brotherhood-in-egypt/

How idiotic is your argument, anyway? Do you expect some newspaper to have all the details on each arrest warrant? What does that have to do with being "secret"? You are completely talking out of your ass, as usual, seeking attention.

 

When you arrest a large group of people, you should have some details as to why. This should be published. It is the military's first significant action, and to the outside world, it looks as if an entire political party is being arrested. What is the rationale? What are the crimes all of them are alleged to commit?

you're right that details on each arrest might be difficult to parse out. Maybe that's why mass arrests focused on one political party are a bad idea. It might make some people think the military has ulterior motives---or in this case, it might make some people conjure evidence for crimes, while ignoring hard evidence of crimes for others.

Stepping aside your laser focus on the semantics of one phrase I used, what are you to say of the lack of arrests when it comes to the military's torture and killings? I believe 4 lower-level conscripts were charged. It seems this is a systematic thing worth investigating further. Using your talent for conjuring up crimes for others, can you perhaps see why there needs to be condemnation for crimes revealed under sworn testimony?

 

Only to idiots like you. The Muslim Brotherhood is much bigger than 300 people.

Incitement to murder, murder, violence, persecution of copts, etc. etc. etc. Who knows if all the invidual warrants are justified? But one thing that is absolutely clear is that the Muslim Brotherhood represents intolerance and violence.