Once again, every religion has its extremists. My dad was trying to have a business relationship with a bunch of businessmen who happened to take an active role in their local church. One of them was avid that they even have their meetings in the church, and start their meetings with a small prayer. My dad, being a muslim, felt no threat in this. He commended them on their love for their faith and for god and went along with it. That was until one of the guys decided one day that in some gospel, (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't rememebr to clearly) David or Paul or one of the Apostles had said, "don't yolk with non-christians" therefore, they were breaking off business relationships with my dad. Now, if your not supposed to yolk with non-christians, you could call that a form of racism, could you not?
You keep thinkin' that. Find it in other religions then... if they were dead then how could " 6. Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 7. And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same. " exist in the same text?? ...'cause you did not find Christ (ahem.. New Testament?? ding ding?) condone killing people. Old Juadic text, maybe recorded wars, but that is entirely different than "present tense action words" calling "death to infidels" and "jihad." Try again. I'm not blind at all. Rockets R' Us Call it racist, or true believers sticking to beliefs... there is no mention of "death to infidels" merely, separating one's self. BIG difference.
Riiiiiiigghhhhht "I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27). B
exactly what i was saying. People should understand that no religion on it self is bad. BUt that some people do terrible things in the name of religion. IROC it i have a questioin. Do you think that the christian believe is better then any other believe? or do you tink the islamic faith is just worse. or do you think al religions are equal? Just wondering. i haven't read the qura'am so i do not know if he said that, but if you say so i believe you. But the christian god destroyed whole cities because they did not believe, or just got in the way of his people. All religions have had a terrible history where people murdered non believers. But it were the people who did it not the religion. Like franchiseblade said No religion is bad. Just the people who do terrible things and say it is a religieus act.
these are sorta death-to-the-infidelsish "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. " (Matt 10:34) And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town. (Matt 10:14-15)
you understand that what you just quoted was a parable, right? that it was Jesus telling a story....not a command to kill people for Christ...you do understand that right? did you not read that in its context at all?? did you pull that one line from a website or something that seeks to discredit the Bible?? because that is the worst case of out of context i've ever seen. and that's the very thing you're arguing against...right??
if that's what you're looking to prove, outlaw...then you can twist scripture that way. but good luck with this next one: (Jesus said): "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on the cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them and lend to them without expecting to get anything back." -- Luke 6:27-35
- Well, what can I tell you? Your cousin is wrong. You will only take the word of a Muslim. Make no mistake about it, you have not read the Qura'an, you have merely read the translation, if even that. The Qura'an was not meant to be translated. Understand this. - Infidels, knows as "Kafirs" in the Qura'an, are those people who want to put an end to Islam (to be brief). It's those people who are not indifferent, but have negative intentions towards Islam and Muslims. I.E., people who take over their land, kill their women and children, and force other religions onto them. The Qura'an was not meant to be translated. That's why you thought it meant "non-believers", because you read a few quotes from a translation, not because you read the entire thing, original or translated. Even in translation, if you read the entire section, you will understand the context because it is explained. - This is not a hidden agenda. It is a Muslim belief that translation will lead to inaccuracies, just like the one YOU read, and threfore the Qura'an should not be translated. As an example, the Bible doesn't have 100% textual accuracy, and much of this is thanks to translation. The idea is to maintain 100% textual accuracy in the Qura'an, which has been accomplished so far no thanks to people like you. - No, not only in the U.S., in the world. My brother is married to a Christian American. No, my brother is not defying Muslim law, and if you don't believe me, you can ask any Imam from any mosque. Don't ask your cousin. Jewish, not ok. Christians, it's fine. Not sure about other religions. It's frowned upon, but still, allowed. - They do all that. But you didn't answer my question: Is there anything forbidden in Islam that is allowed in Saudi? What you said just proves my point that NO there is nothing forbidden in the Islam and accepted in Saudi. - DO NOT get off topic. You said that all infidels must be killed, but Jews were allowed to live on Muslim land. Ofcourse they payed taxes, what incentive to Muslims have for letting Jews live among them after they tried to KILL Muslims? - Don't call it ignorant, because you simply don't know. The Qura'an is not meant to be translated. The Arabic language in general doesn't translate well to English, it's way more complex. There are English translations to HELP at first, for people who don't speak Arabic. For people like YOU who find something starnge and wrong, you should go and ask someone knowledgeable so that they can clarify it. Translations are necessary, but they are by no means accurate. The things in translation come off wrong and hateful. It's a known fact, the Qura'an is not accurate in translation. To any language. - Clearly you've been lied to. "Islam" does not mean peace. "Al Salam" means peace. "Islam" means "to arrive at peace". Once again, you have been proven inaccurate. I speak Arabic. I know. Obviously, the people who taught you don't. I'm sure it's quite harsh to watch the Islamic teachings being applied in Saudi, but I'm all for it. The crime rates in Saudi and the U.A.E. are superb. I live in the Middle East and I can be outside on the streets at 3 or 4 in the morning without worrying about anything. We don't lock our house door. Some people don't even lock their cars. In Saudi, most don't even locktheir stores during prayer time. I'm fully aware that I haven't gone through the reprucussions of these punishments, but it is effective, and to be EXTREMELY fair, not more than 25 people a year are punished by amputation or execution in Saudi. - Explain to me exactly what you mean by Muhammad was a warlord. Yes, THAT Muhammad, who lived in a cave, and didn't eat food days at a time to feed other people. I'll grant you this, he was not Mother Teresa, but he did not do anything unjust whatsoever. Support your claim with an example. - So, if I get hired for the same newspaper, and decide to say that Hitler was perfectly right for doing what he did, does that mean that Islam supports Hitler? because that's what you're saying, and almost everyone here disagrees with you. The sample does NOT represent the population, and you know it. It was not a religion talking, it was an individual, clearly a disturbed individual.
Sane -- am I one of the "People of the Book?" is that the designation for Christian in the Koran? i've only read English translations of the Koran, obviously. is People of the Book a pretty fair translation for the meaning in Arabic??
Yes, you are considered among the "people of the book" or "Ahl al-kitaab". The thing to keep in mind is the whole idea. "The book" actually means the "books". The books of Abraham, David, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed. According to Islam, "people of the book" are the people who go by these books. However, there is some debate reagarding this... Some people say that the people of the book apply to the TIME of the book. For example, anyone living between the birth of Christianity and the birth of Islam who follows Christianity is a "people of the book" and goes to heaven. However, now that there IS Islam, those people who have the full knowledge of Islam and deny it in favor of Christianity, for example, are not the same. Basically, the 5 books are all said to be from Allah and has been "released" in levels of difficulty. The reason for this is that society could not immediately go from where they were to Islam immediately. So God eased it onto humans by levels and that's why, according to Muslim belief, Islam is the harshest of religions. Imagine the backlash if it came down immediately? However, this belief of who the "Ahl al Kitaab" are is subject to debate now. The opposing argument is that, why include the Ahl Al Kitaab in the Qura'an if these people should cease to exist after the Qura'an?
interesting. thanks. of course...if we're talking about harsh regulations/laws/outward acts/judgment, etc....i'm not sure we go from Old Testament to New Testament and get a "harsher" account. not with the grace of what Christians believe of Christ.
Religion....ah yes.... Text written by men to control the ignorant masses. Got to love all this killing in the name of god. The Q'ran was allegedly written by a pedophilic warlord...now that is a messiah. Sheesh !!!!! DD
seriously, dd...is that necessary? do you realize how offensive that is? can you not make a point about this without being so incredibly conclusive and inflammatory?
Uhhhhhh, no !!! It is how I see religion, especially when I see how many people are dying when their leaders are quoting the Q'ran to get them to blow themselves up. Or in Guyana where they drink the special punch that Jim Jones made for them, or perhaps the David Koreshians in Waco? There is nothing wrong with religion per se, but for people to blindly follow a book WRITTEN BY MAN is incredibly ignorant. In my inflammatory opinion of course. And Allah (the warlord/murderer) did marry a 9 year old...so if the shoe fits..... DD
your post is loaded with assumptions about people and beliefs you clearly have no clue about. keep up the great work.
Whatever Max.....Nothing I said was wrong, it just undermines religion and that makes you and others uncomfortable. No problem, I can see the hypocrisy oozing around this thread. DD
MadMax-- You are absolutely right, and it was my error to quote Luke in that way. I didn't pull it from another site--this was from a CD Rom Bible I have and did some word searches....a final post before bedtime that I didn't bother to check. Shoddy research, the point was innacurate and not up to par. My bad, my goof, my apologies. I still stand by my previous posts, though. Those I actually took time with. cheers Blackfish
awesome. i appreciate you saying that. people have absolutely abused and twisted the bible to have it serve their purposes. no doubt about that.
