I have to agree with you. Get real, SAR's the type of difference maker who would instantly transform us into the champions. SAR's only a marginal All-Star but he's getting paid like a superstar. With his contract, we would be way over the cap but we would not be able to challenge for the title as well.
I'm not for the Allen deal either as it would leave us too thin, but man one can only dream of having Reef, Allen, Francis, Ming, and Posey in one squad. I gotta admit, if they could endeed pull off these two moves, just maybe it would make all the difference..., as it stands we're not a very bad team at all.
I won't deny that you have a point crash. But you'll have to agree that Griffin's development isn't going as fast as all of us hoped. If you look at Amare and Jermaine O'neal after he got the minutes to show what he was capable of... sure, we spent 3 picks on the kid, but when is the waiting too long? Doesn't it make sense to trade him when his value is high if you realize his upside is not as high as originally perceived? And let's face it. We are hungry for the playoffs. I can't stand the lottery anymore after this long, and we won't even have a pick this time around. Of course I would prefer to get Grant and move Taylor, allowing Griffin to develop slowly off the bench. Let's wait and see what happens. Caution is warranted, as we certainly cannot afford to make more mistakes like signing Mo to that fat contract of his. On the other hand, SAR is a helluva lot better player than him, but then again, he wouldn't fit in with Yao as well as Grant or Brand would.
Some things to consider: 1. We fans may be growing impatient with Griffin, but so what?! The Rockets obviously see something in him that makes Griffin untouchable right now. Kind these names in mind: Jermaine O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, Rashard Lewis, Al Harrington. At a comparable point in their careers, Griffin is making as much or more of a contribution than any of them, i.e. he's starting and plays a big role on defense. 2. Simple math tells me that it's not as simple as SAR for Griffin. And I really don't think the Hawks would just settle for Rice & Griffin, either, they probably want a pick or 2. I know I would if I were the Hawks, particularly for a young, proven PF like SAR. As much as I like SAR, that's too high a "price" to pay.
That's just ridiculous. When you size up a deal you have to look at the long-term implications that a trade will have on your team. You can't simply fall all over a player because he has a name! It is about fit with existing personnel. I would counter with SAR at a MAX contract is immovable. If he doesn't fit, we're stuck with him. Not as bad as NYK being stuck with Houston, but it's a good analogy. Say no to SAR, there's no reason to do a deal now, he will be available over the summer. Why else has no other team swung for the fences with Rahim. Soft interior defense. That's why. Defense generates discipline, consistency, playoffs, playoff success, etc. etc. Rahim does not bring it, but he does have a name, that's for sure.
I had expected Griffin to start out the year 14 ppg / 10 rpg / 1.5 bpg but I was obviously mistaken. After I got over my disappointment and decided that EG was not going to be the next KG or Tim Duncan I re-evaluated where I thought EG would end up and it was still pretty good. I do believe that he will average 14 / 10 / 2.5 but maybe not for another year or so. Still anyone should be able to see his improvement. He is much more aggressive going to the glass and getting rebounds than he was early in the year and his man to man defense has improved a ton since the first of the year as well. If we trade Eddie it should be for someone that will still be here when we are contenders and someone that already gives us what we think Eddie will give us when he matures. Amare is a freak. There is no way we trade Eddie and get back an Amare type of talent so what is the point of even bringing his name up. Almost any 20 year-old-player not called Magic pales in comparison to what Amare has done. And say what you want about Jermain but he was 22 when he had his first decent year. I bet Portland would love to rethink that trade now. Look at Rasheed Wallace, his numbers as a 20-year-old player in Washington are not as good as Eddie’s but I bet Washington wishes that they had given Rasheed another year or two to develop. Both Rasheed and Jermain are perfect examples as to why the Rockets should be patient with Eddie. Sure it does. Get back some like Elton Brand and I’m all for it. The problem I have with trading Eddie now is that unless you get back someone like Brand you run the risk of taking someone that does not have close to the value that Eddie will have in a couple of years. Your statement only makes sense if Eddie is not going to improve his game. I’m right there with you on this one. Nothing is gained by missing the play-offs. Having said that I don’t want to lesson our chances at winning a championship in a couple of years just to increase our chances of getting into the play-offs this year. I think our chances of getting into the play-offs this year hinges less on our front court and more with our ball handlers learning to gain confidence in the offensive system and trusting the players around them. Even in L.A. when we lost in double overtime I could tell that Francis and Cat were buying into the system more than earlier in the year. I think the one on one play is starting to evaporate and I think our team might be on the verge of a big break through. Grant does nothing for me. SAR has been an exceptionally productive player. The two problems that I have with him is that he has played with some very good talent and has yet to play on a winning team. Why? Also I don’t think he would be an effective power forward in the West. When he played for Vancouver he played small forward not power forward. If we take SAR we better be damn sure that he can play the power forward spot if we are going to give up Eddie in the deal because with his salary we will be stuck with him for a long time and he will be hard to move in exchange for anything close to equal value. Are you sure he can play the power forward position in the West against Duncan, Brand, Webber, Malone, Wallace, KG, Dirk and Stoudemire?
Add Rasheed Wallace to that list. Eddie is playing fewer minutes and still making a bigger contribution as a 20-year-old than Rasheed did as a 20-year-old in Washington. Eddies all around stats are much better and he is contributing and starting on a team that is challenging for a play-off spot, unlike Rasheed.
I totally agree... I like EG and he will develop, but if the goal is that you need one more thing to get us out of the playoff drought, then do something...
Ok Crash, you have convinced me. SAR is not worth giving up on Griffin just yet. Griffin's main problem right now seems to be his lack of bulk, but he should develop more strenght as time goes by, and there's no denying that he potentially (that's the key word) fits more what we expect from a pf that will play next to yao than SAR does. He has the rebounding and shotblocking instincts in place. I suppose it must be hard for him to gain confidence when he is constantly being pushed around by thougher pf's. Now if we could get rid of Mo instead of Griffin... but the Hawks wouldn't bite that. I still think that Griffin should be brought off the bench for the time being, but for that to happen, we need a tough veteran PF to start. That's why I like the Grant trade. By the time Grant's contract expires, Griffin should be fully developed and ready to take the starting spot for good. You are right, trading Griffin right now without adding a player of say, Brand's caliber, could come back to haunt us in the future.
Yeah, I saw Aldridge mention that trade, too, and I kinda shook my head when Aldridge said that the Rockets nixed the deal because they believe Eddie will turn out to be a great power forward, etc etc. I rolled my eyes at that one. There must be other reasons to turn down the deal. Eddie is cheaper? Rice shoots lights out once every five games that he is actually healthy enough to play (like last night)? SAR has that grotesque contract, but would he accept something more reasonable after next year when his contract is up? Sure, he's a finesse player, but he can pass and shoot and rebound and dribble. Let's see: Eddie can barely do any of those. He can't even put it on the floor. You know, other teams trade 1st or 2nd year players if it's good for the team (Gooden, Rodney White [or whatever that guy's name is, Detroit drafted him last year, traded him to Denver). If you get something back value-wise, why not make the move? Ah well. We shall see.
There is no except. Eddie's overall numbers as a 20 year old are better. If you can say except f/g% then I could counter with except shot blocking and rebounds which like the f/g % really are not that close. Rasheed has only one year with at least 8 rebounds through out his career and averaged 1.8 blocks only once with his second highest year at 1.3 blocks per game. Those are pathetic numbers for a power forward that is considered and franchise player by some.
We might be missing something here. We're all scratching our heads wondering why the Rockets didn't make the deal, but maybe actually the reason why the deal didnt happen was because of Rice, and not EG, though the Rockets have refused to part with him for Rashard too. Maybe Rice is already locked up in another deal, and that was part of the refusal too.
By the same token, I can mention trading Jermaine O'Neal for Dale Davis. That was certainly good for the team in the short term, but turned out to be a disaster in the long term. Franchises get in trouble when they don't think long term. That applies to every sport.
You know, I like Amare, but its pretty obvious that he's just as raw as Eddie. Play Amare for the drive and make him shoot over the top from some sort of range, and he's pretty ineffective right now (hence last night's game). It's only a matter of time before the rest of the league takes notice, especially now during the playoff push. Like Eddie, Amare needs a lot of work on his footwork and post presence. To his credit, Amare is more aggressive and (surprisingly) consistent than Eddie, but neither is close to being a dominant NBA big man yet, despite what Marbury says. FWIW, I'm willing to give Griffin as much time as he needs if he becomes the type of player I think he'll be.
