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Edward Snowden may have just killed the Patriot Act

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, May 10, 2015.

  1. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    First of all being able to use cyber attacks on foreign governments rather than human intelligence, could save lives. By leaking that the United States is doing this, makes the job more difficult and could cost people their lives.

    We know that Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups have attacked the U.S. before, and to leak information that shows how we gather our intel on the location of those terrorists is a threat.

    To leak how the NSA helped the Dutch spy on Somalia which is also valuable to the USA could be potentially dangerous.

    Snowden leaking information about the intel the US has on how Al-Qaeda plans to shoot down our drones isn't a helpful thing for any of us either.

    Here's one article that talks about that stuff.

    http://www.forwardprogressives.com/let-me-show-why-edward-snowden-traitor-not-patriot/
     
  2. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    NSA should have stuck with just doing those things and no one would have had a problem with it including Snowden who remember was one of them. NSA couldn't resist and here we are.
     
  3. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Sorry, I am not convinced.

    Guy put his life on the line to break this stuff. Trading secrets of the US's illegal activities to gain protection is fair game for me.
     
  4. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    It's fine if you aren't convinced, but it's a strange way to look at it.

    If less than 10% of the secrets he stole had anything to do with protecting the rights of American citizens and believing that 90% of the secrets he stole were merely to help him be safe with the 10% he really wanted seems a real stretch.
     
  5. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    1) The United States proclaimed to the world at large with Stuxnet that they were weaponizing cyberspace. It's become common knowledge that close ally GCHQ employs DDoS attacks on Anonymous, and hell, the FBI tacitly admitted to employing DDoS honeypots and injection attacks to unveil Silk Road--a story well-covered in Wired and beyond. The fact that America commits cyberattacks on its own people has been well-documented ground--I'm not sure how taking an extra step and revealing the level to which America commits those actions internationally makes a difference.

    You would have been naive to believe the United States government was not committing cyber attacks before, during, or after Snowden.

    2) This is a vapid argument. The truth is that we live in a golden age for surveillance where data mining public profiles can give you social data, exact locations, and a view on the network of communications, from both a frequency (# of contact points) and engagement (length of each contact point). Anybody with a shred of technical knowledge would know these things were possible--the only thing you'd have to believe is that A-Q would think America was above analyzing their digital communications, even when they were actively pursuing all leaders with killer drones (???).

    The valid argument is--now that everybody knows the NSA cannot penetrate Tor/Tails and a whole host of cryptography solutions, maybe people will migrate there? The truth of the matter is though that those solutions offer such dire trade-offs, and the facts don't bear this out--such a minute fraction of cases go south because of strong encryption--and as we see with Silk Road, even some amount of digital sophistication cannot protect you for long.

    We know the NSA has enough resources to crack even the best cryptography schemes, it just costs them a lot to do it. Good. This is the perfect balance: if somebody is REALLY worth pursuing the NSA will put their money where their mouth is.

    The other things you mentioned in passing and didn't seem particularily convinced of the harm, so I won't address those for now.
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Yep I agree. That's why no matter what he did, the most important thing that Snowden did was to expose the illegal activities against American citizens by the NSA. Snowden deserves major props for doing that.

    With the government crackdown on whistleblowers it will only encourage these kinds of things too. If whistleblowers weren't punished it could also help avoid things like this.
     
  7. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    But knowing that the US might be engaging in cyberspace warfare seems different than exposing code, how they were doing it, the kinds of targets they had, or were interested in and those kinds of secrets being leaked seems to more damaging than just the fact the US was engaged in it.
     
  8. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Not sure what you mean by "exposing code"--if you're talking about the xKeyScore rules that labelled Linux users extremists and tagged everybody who searched for Tor outside of the Five Eyes nations--that was leaked by a German broadcaster, not Snowden.

    "how they were doing it" is common knowledge in technical domains, though the audaciousness of the NSA in augmenting Cisco routers and syphoning data from Google behind the lines was unexpected. Nevertheless, I expect that terrorists would know their communications were monitored according to the same principle that the Internet and mobile phones are giant data sinks.

    "the kinds of targets they had" -- well, I thought it was plainly honest because of the drone-hunting for "classical terrorists". but yes, now we know the NSA targets peaceful American Muslims and technologists who use cryptography, so insomuch as those are the enemies of the state, I suppose that has been rumbled.
     
  9. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    A new dawn:

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...one-records-collection-usa-freedom-act-senate

     
  10. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    God bless that Snowden.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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  12. bingsha10

    bingsha10 Member

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    Republicans are divided. The neocon part of the republican party doesn't like this. The other part does. Rand Paul gave a 10 hr speech protesting the Patriot Act. Unfortunately Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell is a neocon. This certainly makes it much harder for it to get reauthorized however which is a good thing.
     
  13. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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  14. Anticope

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  15. bnb

    bnb Contributing Member

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    laugh?

    or cry?
     
  16. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Didn't read the article, but very dissapointing if he did that.

    Bernie Sanders please.
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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  18. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    One love, one life, one too many victims
    Republicrat, Democran, one party system
    Media goes in a frenzy
    They're stripped of their credentials
    Presidential candidates can't debate over this instrumental
    Let 'em freestyle, winner takes all
    When the music's dead, I'll have Ted Nugent's head hangin' on my wall
    Kill one of ours, we'll kill one of yours
    With some friendly fire
    That's a funny term, like civil war
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    True if you're a one issue voter, and that sole issue is renewal of certain Patriot Act provisions, you are probably correct.

    Otherwise, in reality, the gulf between the two parties has effectively never been greater (thanks in large part to the hard right turn by one...)
     
  20. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Grabbing more power for the government isn't a traditionally conservative characteristic. Basically everyone in power tries to get more power.
     

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