I think this is a lot more complicated issue. I don't think college success can be defined by k-12 success. some kids don't mature till after a couple of years of college. some kids will never adjust and probably will never have the desire. its not anything that's static. I'm probably more of the direct opposite of your opinion on how it should be handled but I think most people agree that college isn't for everyone but i do believe you may make that distinction too early for some kids if you try to make that decision before a kid is 18. Again, I think you need to focus on the early ages. All humans have a general thirst for knowledge, that no matter what background that kid comes from, last through the elementary years. that's where the focus should be. try not to loose these kids in the early years. by the time they get to high school, alot of them already feel they are only go so far and some of them are lost to what they can achieve.
When you say "gap" that means the space between options is to large to a certain extent. Why not a REAL third option for people?
You can't isolate this issue from K-12. You just can't. In general, no 18-or-so year old kid is "ready" for college in that they will fully appreciate and maximize. Kids are stupid. Even the smart ones. That is part of being a kid. It takes time before you start to understand how to be a good student and how to learn. By then it is usually too late but oh well. In any event, kids already at a disadvantage are driven further into the red by having a poor education from the beginning. I am not just talking underfunded but also philosophy. Our school system is very different from our international competitors. So you can't just say some countries have free college because there is less waste - they also have an entirely different philosophy of education and economics (dreaded socialism). I do not like heavy governmental (as B-Bob expressed) "oversight" but I also think the corporate way is the wrong way. Corporate control means humanities die a quick death because they are less quantifiable. This is already happening to a degree in public institutions that have to show some kind of "statistics" to get state and federal funding. Civilization has done fine advancing without education being vocationally driven and other countries currently manage to survive without it. It is all about philosophy and priorities. Ultimately, college is not really about "learning", it is about learning how to learn. At least it should be.
Yes you can because it is isolated by the laws. K-12 is "free" higher education is not. Plus the break comes from what our .gov deems minimum education to have a voting public. You want everyone to have basic education so thats mandatory and inflexible. My point is the next level which is optional needs work.
But...in order to get into college you need to have had some success in the K-12 levels so they are interconnected in a way.
Huh? Your first post was about kids taking too long in college and "to" many kids being unprepared for the experience. Did these kids just appear out of the ether before enrolling or did they exist within a previous educational culture?
My theory was they take to long because they are not able to complete it in time. I don't blame the schools K-12, I blame the students motivation and abilities. Thus my idea to expand the 2 year vocational certification program. If you blame the schools thats fine but as was pointed out there will still be a gap in those who can afford/work to get a 4 year degree and those who cannot.
First sentence is awesome. Second - what do you say is the problem with motivation and abilities of students? Why are there "to" many these days?
Slow move toward a Brave New World You tell a kid he is not university material enough . . it will be come true Rocket River
Yeah its much better to not invest in a new accredited state sponsored program. Better to let those who cannot finish the university to make 8 per hour while paying off student loans and credit cards. Tell everyone that they are smart enough to do anything when you knows its not true.
