Its a team wide problem. EVERY player on our team holds the ball for 3 or 4 secs before making their move. Steve does it, Cuttino does it, Moochie does it and even Yao does it. Its not fair to pinpoint KT as the only player on this team that does this. Hes not. The majority of post plays are ISOs. KT is a post player. Also, EG is not the passer that KT is. In fact, EG is more of a black hole than KT is. Once EG gets the ball in a position to shoot it, hell rarely kick it back out to someone else. KT has had numerous games this year with 4+ assists yet with 1/3 of the touches that Francis has. KT's problem is he is inconsistent sometimes. EG's problem is, hes not a willing passer or a good passer. Look at both of their assist numbers in certain games this year. Youll see when I am talking about.
why not play kenny and eddie together? KT as SF and EG as PF on defense, the reverse on offense. it's not like KT is too slow to guard SFs- look at Rice.
First....steve is all pro...and deserves to hold the ball more...just like magic or bird did....so you cant compare the two, and yes, i was hoping he would pass the ball sometimes...but when you are as talented as steve...you get some benifit of the doubt...why...because he is the top 2 or 3 point guards in the WORLD...kenny is not the top 40 power forwards in the league. and is by my definition the at best the 5th best player on the team...on a good night...so no comparision. and yes...cuttino sucks at passing too..but i do see improvement at it though...but i haven't seen kenny play like cuttino so i can give cuttino a little more slack..but he should still pass the ball. also...we have other 4's who are just as good depending on who you talk too...but mobley is by far out best 2..so we have no choice kinda. second...how many chances does eg really get to post up...like never.....so dont use him as an example..he is wanting to show what he can do and get everyone off his back that he cant post up...but he never gets a chance anyways, so that is a mute point... Ming....passes like noones booty....so dont compare him and kt...he is holding to seriously pass the ball...where as kenny is holding to find out how he is going to boost his contract... and heypartner....i love your posts....but i was refering to his post ups, not when he is the middle man of play...again, that is not a proper reference. i want to see kenny pass the ball when he doesn't have too..or when his booty is in trouble. meaning...someone is open more than kenny...so pass the ball!! ...if you see how ming can pass the ball...that is what basketball should be like..but in the overwhelming selfishness of the nba ...or a lot of american players...they never learned how to properly...or they just dont want to. bottom line...is that kenny is trying to prove the rockets wrong for not offering him a contract...or he just sucks at passing...hard to tell. i would love to see an UNSELFISH play from kenny...more than one or two times a game...it should be everytime he touches the ball...just like mr. ming!
RRuule, I thought you said to not compare Ming to Kenny; then you compared them. Compare KT to Gasol, MoT, Brand, Gooden....guys like that. I do not see them pass as much as KT. I really don't. KT is by no means the low post threat of Gasol or Gooden, so he shouldn't get as many plays, nor does he, but he does get those plays called for him. I don't buy this selfish thing anymore than I think the majority of PFs who get ISOs called for them are selfish. One of the most efficient parts of basketball is low post ISOs, and the faster PFs like to start a little further and face. Kenny is being compared to the perimeter ISOs of our guards, and that is just not right. He should be compared to the face-up games of Gasol, and the passing of Gasol.
And the stat for a guy that everyone seems to want who has about the same shots per game is Brian Grant. his FGA/assist = 6.07 someone look up Troy Murphy, Weatherspoon, Lorenzen Wright....and other guys getting around 7-10 shots per game. I mean, Kenny is no Anthony Mason in playmaking abilities, and no one really is...but he can and does pass.
hp - you are right...when i make a blanket statement....i will not give the reason why i said it. i just wanted to explain why...sorry also...i think when a player does what he does...he should realize who he is first. brand is a hell of a lot better than kt...so it is more understandable...not right and is selfish as doodoo...but understandable. motay...is not that much better...so yes he should more pass too... gooden is a rook...he should be passing more too.. gasol...is a lot lot better than kt...so you cant compare...i dont want to explain or i will get in trouble. when you say iso's are efficient...that doesnt' take into account what it does to the team. when you iso.. you make the other players sit there...you may score but you mess up everyone's rythem...so your reference to effiency is not accurate. everyone on the rockets agree with this philo. i guess i am coming from a passing mentality. who are the best teams in the league...dallas and sac. why??? even cat said it...they pass better than the rocks do. period. and who are the problem children on our team....it is almost everyone but ming imo. but there are some more than others... and sense kenny gets the most post up's other than ming...then it is very important that he passes effectively...to KEEP his teamates involved. why....because when it really counts at the end of the game and your teamates haven't been involved... you wont be able to make the plays...because they haven't been involved. also everyone from rudy to francis says you have to start from the inside out....so it is essensial that kenny passes more. also...like i said before..if you want to compare players....(just because bobby doesn't doesn't mean you can do it)...american players are very selfish...and the game today doesn't have the passing they used to have. that is why i want boki playing...to help with this concept.
its just kenny tries to do to much. he always wants to score he needs to be a role player. like griffin has excepted.
the best lineup to end games would look like this c-yao pf-eddie sf-glen sg-mobes pg-franchise games against big teams height wise like spurs or lakers c-yao pf-cato sf-eddie sg-mobes pg-steve
I haven't ever been one of the biggest Thomas supporters, but after reading this thread, i had to give my 2 cents. Although Eddie is a real good help defender, he gets dogged straight up.Gasol had his way with him just by going to the hoop. Brand abused him a couple of weeks ago also. Thomas despite his lack of size at least stays in front of the man and for good or bad makes taller players shoot over the top. The bad thing about it is since he gives up about 4-5 inches on a nightly basis, its almost like a uncontested shot. I would have liked to see Hawkins play a little tonight against person actually.
ISOs by PF and Cs are a whole nother animal than perimeter ones. They actually have a different name--post ups. You cannot say post ups are bad for the team, as they force more double teams that any other play, and are generally one dribble move away from a shot. Perimeter ISOs are much more difficult. You cannot compare the two.. Post ups are fundamental to basketball, on all teams, in all offenses. I'm coming from a passing mentality, too. And if we do enough passing we can get Yao inside ten feet for a post-up, and we want him taking his man from there or drawing the double. If the play gets KT at the freethrow line or 10' on the wing, he is pretty efficient against man d, enough to test that defense, and I'm sure Rudy wants him to take it immediately or check to see if a double will come. Hence, why he is not selfish or playing for a contract. Remember, we are talking about 7 fgs as if he took 20 like Mobley. Kenny is a motion contributor...he has show it. The post-ups are part of the offense and every team uses them, and every offense,,,as passing is often used with the goal to get prime position for postups.
I think it all boils down to...when i see kenny with the ball...there have been many times when i think he should have passed to another person. i also think that he takes way too long to pass it and toooo long to make his move. Even if kenny takes 3 shots...it needs to be a smart shot....what i mean is that... dont take the shot if someone else is open, or pass it to someone who will then pass it to someone who is open..... i think he is not good at finding the open player. and i know that rudy wants him to post up and score...but do it more in the team concept. when i see ming pass...to me it seems like the smart pass....i rarely see kenny make a smart pass. now this is true with most of team right now, that they dont always make the smart pass...which is why they will not be the elite team until then. and noooooo...post ups are what i said, they are essential to the offense...(inside, out) is the way the ball should move. but kenny is crappy at this. i have played with ball hogs all the time...and they make the game no fun. and a ball hog doesn't have to shot 20 times...it just means when they get the ball...they want to shoot more than anything....rather than make the SMART play. kenny most of the time...doesn't make the smart play! i dont think kenny helps the flow of the game at all. and that is what matters the most. that goes back to bball iq. some players have it...some dont. ming has it...kidd has it...bird has it... isn't it ironic that they dont run a bunch of cuts when kenny has the ball like they do with ming. maybe because he doesn't know how to pass. remember, passing is the offense...not post up iso's like the run for kenny. even if it is posting up...that doesn't mean the passing should end. that should be the beginning of the play..and with kenny...it tends to be the end way way too much. when calvin murphy is screaming at kenny to pass the ball...and a lot of threads are talking about it...maybe there is something to it, but this is all opinions anyways. but this thread is about eddie or kenny...and i prefer eddie becuase he is someone who helps the flow of the game better.
i don't understand why you think Eddie is better for the flow of the offense, when Kenny contributes so well when our offense is flowing at its best.
hp - you are right...i think kenny has the potential and the skill to really help the flow more than eddie. but the flow of the game for the rockets is dependent on how they pass. and when a player...no matter who that player is...sits and holds the ball which alters the flow of the offense...i think anyone who doesn't do that helps the offense more than someone who does. yes, kt has better offensive moves and better footwork and better denying the post defense...but if i was the coach, which i am not of course...anyone who doesn't help the flow...should sit. which is why i think kenny is not as good as eddie for flow purposes...but i guess eddie in this case can be substituted by anyone who is willing to pass it more. also, we dont need a lot scoring from kt...we already have cat, steve and yao to do that...and that is plenty...so kt should really be trying to score his points within the flow rather than all by himself, meaning not any iso post ups. because the players who need to have that flow more than anyone are the 3 forementioned players. and when they dont have the oppourtunity to touch the ball like they should, the rockets really suffer. but all of this is mute if rudy wants kenny to score on the iso post up...then i blame rudy and not kenny...so it may not be kenny's fault at all...it could all be rudy...but i like and respect rudy enough to think he doesn't want that. but either way, i respect your opinion hp...so it is good to hear someone who thinks differently...becuase i get frustrated with kenny and his non passing booty...this could help me deal with it!!
nope kenny is a cancer THE whole rockets did not play good eddie is struggliing but we all know how he is and he still deserves the starting spot on the rockets
eddie is gonna be the nest priemer small/power forward like kevin garnett. eddie is just hitting a slump right now.
no..i am not missing kenny.... your reference is crazy...might as well throw away steve too...with the way miller and williams abused him... sometimes players get hot....period.
