Relive this headache? What risk are we taking by letting Eddie come back to Houston. Hell, we've already spent three draft picks on him, I don't think we are taking on additional risk. If he works out then great. If he flames out on us again so what? We survived without him last season and I doubt losing him would destroy our chances at the playoffs. But just like this T-Mac trade, and those who don't want to trade Steve, you take the risk on the potential that it brings you. You bring T-Mac in because of what he could mean for this team. You bring Eddie back because of what he could provide this team. I always believe you err on the side of "could" and not "should have". In other words, you always take minimal risk when the potential profit is that high. I'd hate to see Eddie go to another team and develop at our expense. Then we will all be saying, "we should have brought Eddie back"
I don't see how he'd be a headache. He's not a chemistry problem like an Anthony Mason or Ruben Patterson, in fact most of his teammates seemed to have liked him. If he's a liabilty on the court, he won't get minutes and will be cut. This is a low risk, high reward oppurtunity. As for him playing for the Jazz, I think Jerry Sloan would be the worst coach to put with Eddie.
Yes, they loved him when he quit on his team, and I'm sure his college and high school teammates loved hiim when he started swinging at them. It is a high risk, no reward opportunity. Fortunately, Rockets management will feel the same way.
Yes, Eddie Griffin has b een a great team player his whole life, he has excellent court vision and a high basketball IQ. He's everything Steve Francis is not...and it shows in their productivity.
No, Eddie has been a young'un with his head on a bit sideways. However, he is also a young'un with several skills that are extremely valuable to a basketball team, among those being speed, freakish athleticism, and a nose for blocking basketballs. May I remind you that he is still 21 years old and let me point out that we could add him (on the cheap) to a core of Yao at 23 and McGrady at 25. Those are the kinds of combinations that dynasties are made of. Don't get me wrong, Eddie has a LOT of growing up to do as well of plenty of hurt feelings to get over. I am just of the opinion that he deserves the chance to make up those hard feelings by playing for us cheap until he can prove that he has his head on straight.
BTW, if Francis passed like Kidd, EG would have been an all-star in his second year with the way he runs the court. He was on the wing every other "fast break" and Francis never learned how to get him the ball. EG could be devastating on the break ala Karl(a) Malone if he had someone willing to pass it or someone who would command a double team on fast breaks.
You forgot about his other abilities, namely horrendous man defense and awful rotations, terrible ball handling, inability to hit the broad side of a barn from outside the paint, lack of any post up game or ability to play with his back to the basket. He could jump, and could block as a help defender, and would grab a few boards. That was it. Sh-t, even everybody's favorite Senegalese player could perform those duties. People thought that he had potential. Well, it didn't translate to anything on the court, whiere his performance was as lousy as he was off the court. He will never wear a Rocket uniform again, bet on it.
Come on, this is absurd. If all you have to be able to do is run and jump to turn into Karl Malone when you have Jason Kidd, then freaking Malick Badiane could do it. It's not that easy; he exhibited nowhere close to the level of skills, mentally or physically, that Malone has or had. He sucked, and it showed.
I'll just let the first part go. It's obvious we won't agree on this, but I do recall guys like Francis and maybe Mobley or Taylor talking about how unfortunate he was cut and that he should be given a second chance. But the second part I just don't understand. How is there no reward? He could come back and be a good option at the PF. You might doubt that, but it's not impossible. He could improve his game. Am I saying that the 8 point, 5 rebound, 39% shooter is the answer for us at the 4? NO! But I'm saying that he has the skills to develop into a 13 point, 8 rebound, 49% shooter, and that's the kind of role player that all championship teams have. If he really has his head on straight, I wouldn't bet against him becoming that kind of player. As for the risk; what is it? The Rockets looking dumb for trading for a player, cutting him, signing him, and then cutting him again? Won't they look just as dumb if he signs with another team and has a good career? In my opinion, this wouldn't be a bad move.
I've seen him play. He's a mediocre player. He won't have a good career, bet on it. That = Low/no reward He won't be back with the Rockets after quitting on his team on multiple occasions, bet on that too. Oh, and he likes to shoot at and beat people up. That = high risk. he got multiple chances from the rockets, a few more chances from the nets, and that doesn't count his other pre-nba chances. That's enough. It's over, you guys need to accept it. He will not be an allstar, and he will never be back. This was true 9 months ago.
Hard times + hard men + hard hearts = hard heads. Funny. Some consider me a conservative. I guess I'm really a soft, touchy-feely liberal at heart because I say "Give the kid another chance to have a productive life."
Hmmm, if a guy can potentially put the ball in the hoop and be of value to you, then give him a second chance. If he was just another thug accused of assaulting his girlfriend, I'm sure you'd feel the same way. You're a classic conservative.
You clearly have an ax to grind. Plenty of guys with most of those qualities have NBA careers (Bo Outlaw, Foyle, Aaron Williams, Darious Miles). You bring him in for a non-guarantted minimum contract. You tell him to block shots, rebound on both ends, and run the court, nothing more. If he can do those things, great, you have a minimum player who can contribute in ways no current Rocket big man can, if he can't do those things you cut him, no harm done to the team. How hard is this to get?
If that's all you're looking for in a big man, there are plenty of options out there. Options that, mind you, haven't blown chance after chance. I'd rather go into the season with role players who can definitely do the job, instead of project players like Eddie. He's proven decisively that he's not who we thought he'd be when we drafted him - if he was, he wouldn't be unemployed now.
I have no axe at all. I just think its funny how you guys can't let go of the fantasy that he is going to come back and redeem himself (and the Rockets). Trust me, if it was as low risk a proposition as you guys claim it is, the Rockets would have done it. I don't think they will, for the reasons that I stated that you guys can't seem to get past: he's a lousy player on the court and an embarassment off it. We'll see, but I like my odds better than yours.
Actually, for the sake of brevity, I shortened the list of his abilities, but let's just deal with your contentions first. After two years of playing Rudyball in a system that was not nearly as precice as JVGs. JVG taught SF3 and BOKI to play defense this year, which is no mean feat. I saw him starting to come around in the preseason, as he got used to JVGs system. He is 21 years old for crying out loud. Did you see the defense that Jermaine O'neill played at 21? That was why he sat on the bench for Portland for so long (that and he was behind 'Sheed and Grant). I respectfully disagree. He averaged .82 TO per game during his first two seasons. Otis Thorpe averaged 2.21 for his career. .331 three point percentage for his career, which is better than this list of guys shot from three point range this year. Paul Pierce Richard Jefferson Kerry Kittles Jason Kidd Stephon Marbury Allen Iverson Kenny Thomas Jalen Rose (overall percentage) Michael Finley Antawn Jamison Jim Jackson Cuttino Mobley I only looked at 8 teams statistics, but they give a pretty clear picture that EG can shoot the three with some of the best gunners out there. You are right about this. We only saw EG get sporadic opportunities close to the basket during Rudy's tenure, but I was impressed by his enthusiasm and the way he progressed on the learning curve during the preseason under JVG. I believe that when EG is a monster, he will be doing it on the block. He has a lot to learn in this area, but I thought he showed tremendous strides in that area game to game under JVG. Boy howdy. And very well I might add. How many guys in the NBA have a 7 block game? How many of them did it when they were 20 years old? With leaping ability alone. I saw him progress during the preseason to the point that IIRC, he was in double digit rebounds in more than one game (of the 3 or 4 he played). If EG were on the team that Badiane was on right now, he (EG) would be the MVP of the league. Seriously, EG has shown significant offensive skills (two 25 point games and a lifetime .331 3 point percentage) and a nose for off the ball defense. That is more than enough reason for most teams in the NBA to want to keep and nurture the talent. I will grant you that he was spectacularly stupid in some of his behavior, but he is doing his time and I believe that he deserves a second chance. He is going to have to do a lot to make up for the way he crippled us at the beginning of last year, but I believe in EG and I think he is worthy of an opportunity to make it up to us. If that is true, then it will be to our detriment.
So we both agree that he was terrible at man defending. He might get better under Jeff van Gundy but then you could say the same for you and I even. I'm not talking about TO average, I'm talking about the ability to put the ball on the floor and dribble with it. Eddie couldn't. With the best gunners out there? That would imply he hits closer to 40%, when he's only tagging 30%. Also, he seemed to get worse as his career went on in this department Anyway, it's not his 3 point shooting that's awful, his mid range jumper, a critical skill for many power forwards, was nonexistent. I don't recall anything that profound happening but I wasn't paying that much attention back then. he had a career average of someithing like 8 or 9 boards per 48 minutes. That's closer to Maurice Taylor than Ben Wallace. And he still might not be good enough to be in the NBA. Two 25 point games? That's a low bar. I'm going to venture a guess that most of those 25 point games were built up off of him hanging around the 3 point line jacking up 3's too....Padgett can do that. Like I've said numerous times, he's had multiple chances on every stop, not just in Houston but everywhere else. How many more does he get? Not likely. 12th men are a dime a dozen.
Quitting the team on multiple occasions, I only recall him quitting the Rockets once. Multiple chances? The Rockets actually released him after they heard the news. Yes, the Nets did give him a chance, but no body knew his mental instability until after that. No one is saying he will be an all-star or a 20 & 10 PF, but you sign a guy to a cheap contract and you don't have much to lose. You're acting like we think that Eddie will be the savior of this team, when we just want a young PF that can give us 10 & 8. We obviously don't want to be stuck with MoT for the rest of his contract and Eddie gives us a chance to trade MoT for some change and not worry about our PF situation.
