No, you have to be able to catch the ball in traffic, which EG can, and throw down a dunk, which he is quite proficient at. Seriously, one of the big problems I always had with Francis was that EG would be on the wing ahead of the defense and yet rarely got a lob or pass, instead being relegated to mopping up Francis' misses. If Kidd (or Stockton, to fit with our analogy) were the PG, Eg would have had FAR more points than he did. Again, I would ask you to reserve judgement. Malone came to the NBA at 22 and put up 15 and 9. Personally, I think Griffin EASILY has it in him to average 15 and 9, ESPECIALLY after one more year of seasoning.
Yes, multiple chances. Let's rewind to last fall: already in legal trouble and on the teams sh-t list, he started skipping practices and stopped showing up, he had a private one on one with Van Gundy, then he responded by skipping the next practice. Then he decided to start shooting at people. Then he's in Jersey, he flamed out there, and continued assaulting people. He had multiple chances, here and elsewhere. It's over. he had far more chances than you and I would ever get -- accept it.
I don't normally argue with Jazz fans on this board Sam Fisher, but you are clearly in error by saying that Eddie Griffin averages 8-9 boards per 48 minutes. You are saying this to further argue with Rocket's fans just for the sake of being a jerk, rather than on merit. You didn't even bother to check Eddie's stats over his career. OR You can't figure that in 24.5 minutes per game, in which Eddie averaged 6 REBOUNDS per game, that his average rebounds per 48 minutes would be closer to 12 REBOUNDS PER GAME. Not bad for a clinically depressed 20 year old that moved from New Jersey to Houston, playing an 82 game season with one year of college under his belt. Any moron can figure out that the NBA is tough for ANY NBA player, let alone one that is clinically depressed. It took Tracy McGrady HOW LONG TO BE GOOD? Three years. How long did it take Kobe? We could go on and on and on Sam Fisher, but Jazz fans have a harder time understanding facts. Eddie Griffin will improve exponentially once he has his foundation set, and his depression reconciled. Oh yeah, how long did it take for Jermaine O'Neal to succeed? Compare Eddie's stats to Jermaine's. Now why are you whining anyway? Oh yeah, you're a Jazz fan on a Rocket's fans board. What's the matter Sam Fisher? The Utah Jazz boards are boring or something? lol I wouldn't dream of going to their site either.
He was not the best man defender, but I saw tremendous progress under JVG just in the few weeks they worked together. With a full season, EG would be IMO a good to very good defender on the ball and an absolute MONSTER from the weak side. TO's relate directly to ball handling. He was able to dribble EASILY as well as Kelvin Cato. Year 1 - .330 Year 2 - .333 BTW, you avoided my original point. I gave you a pretty long list of guys who shot worse from downtown than EG has in his career. Some of those people are considered very good three point shooters. If EG can stretch the defense out at the three point line, he will be able to perfect his midrange game. Look at Rasheed Wallace. At least you can admit that. I WAS paying attention and EG took some really big steps in those few weeks. Ben Wallace, who came into the league at 22, averaged 1.1 PPG, 1.7 RPG, and .53 BPG his first year and then went to: 2nd year - 3.1 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 1.07 BPG 3rd year - 6.0PPG, 8.3RPG, 1.86 BPG Wallace's stats didn't even begin to approach EGs until he was 25 and three years into the league. I would take a long term bet on that. The one I distinctly remember was against NY, IIRC. He went off from everywhere, inside he was dunking on people, he got some fast break buckets and offensive putbacks, and he shot well from the three point line. He was incredible that night. Padgett has never shown me a game like that. In fact, Scott Padgett has had exactly ONE 21 point game. From me, one more. He never had professional counseling or help of any kind until he went N-V-T-S last year and Ithink that he deserves a chance. He is a kid who has made some mistakes, but if he is willing to prove that he has his head on straight, I am willing to give him that chance, especially give what he has gone through to try to get some help. Mark my words, EG will at the very least be a solid player in this league. He has the gifts to start and do well in this league and with a lot of hard work, he has the talent to be great.
Jacko-- take some Ritalin. Just because you blew my cover as a fan of my beloved Utah Jazz doesn't mean you have to get all wacked out about it. My mistake, I was looking at his defensive rebounds per 48 minutes, I should have looked one column over. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3517 That would have ranked him just behind Chris Kaman this season. Pardon me for not being impressed. So Jacko, you want to put some money where your mouth is? I'll gladly make any bet you want on Eddie's future productivity.
Sam, Let me get this straight, you have come to the conclusion after watching EG play that he will NEVER amount to anything in the NBA. That is what you are saying, right? I just want to be clear before I post. DD
Why do you think h e would be good, he couldn't move laterally, or didn't seem to be able too, and a lot of his "Monstrous" skillls from the weakside came because he was terrible at rotating and would always blow assignmensl, far worse than any of the Rockets 4's. That's a backhanded compliment, that's like saying he's as truthful as Dick Chaney. Fine, he's a slightly above average 3 point shooter, fantastic. Tell me, are you content with a Rockets offense in which a significant part of his game is the Power Forward sitting at the 3 point line bombing 3's (at 30%)? Why not put Padgett in there then? He shot 43% from 3 last year and was a career 38% 3 point shooter. Thank you, I couldn't think of a better counterexample to Eddie Griffin than Ben Wallace. Their games, bodies, mental attitudes, and their backgrounds are about as polar opposites as they come; classic lazy underacheiver who floats by on talent vs. fiery hardworking overacheiver who has prospered. The results of their NBA careers will be the opposite (and already are) as well. Let's bet on it then. How many games and points does he have to get to be a "solid player"
I've come to the conclusion in following his career that yes, he will not amount to anything. Now hit me with a 3 line masterpiece post of yours that will leave me bamboozled at your mastery of prose.
Sam, I can not fathom how after seeing 2 years of EG playing at the age of 19 and 20, that you could come to a conclusion that he will not amount to anything in the NBA. So many players have blossomed after their 3rd or 4th year in the league, and EG had emotional issues to boot. The guy is only 22 years old, has gone through some serious issues, and is now attempting a comeback, and as a JAZZ fan why the heck should you even care? What are you doing in the Rockets GARM forums anyway? This is about whether the Rockets should take a chance on a young man who led the nation in blocked shots as a freshman at Seton Hall. I would have to question both your motives and your wisdom about EG. Giving up on anyone at the age of 21 is a horrid mistake, the guy did not do anything too terrible, he smoked pot, got in with the wrong crowd, and chased off a pyscho girlfriend. All of those things are forgiveable, and HE IS ONLY 21, or now 22 years old. The guys is worth a look, and the Rockets should sign him. In fact, one could argue that the Rockets should have done MORE to help him not get into those bad situations. The team was clearly not prepared to have a 19 year old on the team, if you draft him, you need to have a support system for him as he grows into becomming a man. Mayhaps you just want your beloved Jazz to sign him, and are on this board spreading your poisenous venom to try to convince people that he is a bad seed. Who knows...but being that you clearly can not see any talent with EG, it surely undermines your credibility to see talent at all. The guy has talent, he just has emotional issues as well. Now go away, or I shall taunt you a 2nd time......... DD
I am trying to take the high road.....MUST GET A GRIP..... HE IS A JAZZ FAN...must hold on..... ARRRRR DD
Look, just because I secretly want him to play at the Delta Center doesn't mean anything. I've said numerous times, this isn't just about one incident. The guy has been out of control for years. The most telling thing I see about him is that all of the pre-draft criticisms of him as a player (a tweener, can't post up, a problem child, plays indifferently, not a good man defender) have come true, almost down to the letter. Every predraft evaluation is a guess. People guessed wrong on him, and i belive most realize that. If I'm wrong, we'll see.
I am having a hard time reconciling Sam as a combination Jazz fan and rivaling RR as zealous and ceaseless defender of all things Francis. Possibly akin to those commi insurgents who supported the anti-Nam marches in the 70s? Alas poor SamFisher. I knew him, Horatio.
As you admitted, you did not see him during the preseason, during which he showed TREMENDOUS progress defensively and some solid signs offensively. The only time you saw him was with Rudy who (mind you I LOVE Rudy T) was not the best at teaching the game. JVG spurred some HUGE improvements in EGs game. Perhaps, but the point remains. Why do we need a PF who tries to take his man off the dribble? I want my PF to do other things and if Kelvin can man the 4 with his ball handling skills, EG will be able to do just as well or better in that department. Yes, it is. Having a guy who hits a third of his threes is just as good as a guy who makes half of his twos. Because EG can do FAR more than JUST gun threes. He far exceeds Padgett's ability in the post and absolutely DESTROYS Padgett on the defensive end. (BTW, it is 33%, not 30) And, as I said before, with a LOT of hard work, EG could be as good as Wallace (either one). I would be more than willing to give EG a shot to do that hard work and, if he loafs, there is no big loss if we pay him even close to the minimum. So far, they have been opposite (a very slow start versus an underachieving, but impressive 19 and 20 year old), but given time and some molding, Griffin could be quite a good player indeed. He would have to play at least 60 to begin to qualify for me. Would you consider a 13/8/2 PF solid?
I agree totalitarianally , it'd be like having 2 1st rounders this year in Eddie and Boki, neither of whom played much if at all last season. Also the team is going to be so different this year, it wouldn't feel so much like he's coming back to all the people who he "walked out on". It's a whole new ballgame. We definitely should have done more for him. He's not a bad guy, he just has mental baggage that can be stowed away neatly in an overhead compartment. If he's working hard and wants to come back, that means he'll equal if not surpass his 2nd year stats. We could use him and I'd actually be mad if he goes to anyone else. We drafted him, we bet the farm on him, he's ours.
RimRockenkrantz and SamFisherstern are dead! Actually, I'm rooting for Eddie to suit up for Utah and then to have a relapse of his teammate/friend assaulting days and to go Yorick on their asses -- two birds, etc.
