02-03 stats Jefferson, 12.4 ppg, 3.70 rpg, .63 bpg Griffin, 11.5 ppg, 7.50 rpg, 2.67 bpg Why would you rather have Jefferson again? Am I the only one who find Eddie's overall stats more impressive? Sure, Eddie started off the season shooting badly, but that's already picked up the last couple of games. Griffin was a much better prospect than Jefferson coming out of college, and we didn't have enough room for those three 1st round draft picks. Any GM/team in the entire league that was in the same situation as the Rockets would have made that trade. There's no way you can second-guess that deal. Eddie was the best big man coming out of college in 2001. Not to mention that a good big man is a lot more valuable/rare than a good swing man.
The fact is that Horry is an emotional player. Meaning he plays big in the big games. That makes him very very valuable. I've even heard him say once in an interview that he coasts a little bit during the regular season. There are 82 games in the regular season. About 20 too many IMHO. Its not a bad idea IF you can deliver in a big way in those big games, which Horry always has done. Eddie does seem to be coming into his own this year. I'm glad he isn't content to sit on the perimeter and jack up 3's. I love EG & KT, or any other player that busts his ass and leaves it all out on the floor.
jlaw, have you watched a single game this season? if so, what gave you this far fetched idea that griff is horry? i mean, really, griff has cut down on the # of threes he shoots and he's posting up more - and being successful!
RJ is putting up better offensive stats than EJ, but there is something else to consider: RJ is 6' 7" 222 pounds. Kenny Thomas is 6' 7" 245 pounds. RJ's Efficiency Rating this year is 15.25 KT's Efficiency Rating last year was 15.69 (EG's current ER, by contrast, is 13.67) RJ's a good player who may become a really good player, but he was an awful lot like a good player we already have, and Griffin had some skillz we needed. I was very pro RJ at draft time, because well-developed polished players come online faster, but if Griff can get his shooting percentage up, people could easily f'get who we traded. Dave
why are you giving up on Eddie so fast ? Right now RJ is looking pretty sweet, but look back a couple of years from now and then compare the two...i'm confident that Eddie will emerge as a star...the guy just a knack for blocking shots and rebounds...just give him a little time to develop his low post. Patience, everything will work itself out. It'll be one of those win - win trades that works out well for both teams.
Actually, Horry is a better offensive player than Eddie (though not by much). Eddie has a problem with shooting percentage he'll have to resolve if he wants to be more than a defensive specialist in the NBA. 38.9% isn't going to earn anyone play time in the NBA. The problem with Robert Horry is that he was as good as he was ever going to get offensively right out of college. There is very little difference in his stats his first year out of college and his career stats. There is no improvement in his stats; just a shift in emphasis, from 2 pt to 3 point shooting during his Rocket years. Eddie appears to be improving. Horry's career efficiency rating per game is a pedestrian 12.295, and his career efficiency rating per 48 minutes is a respectable 21.35. Eddie's current efficiency rating per game is a pedestrian 13.67, and his efficiency rating per 48 minutes is a respectable 19.68. Eddie Griffin is a better rebounder now than Horry generally was. I think Horry had one year where he rebounded more than 6 per game. Horry was a better assist man than Eddie is. Horry could more easily steal the ball than Eddie does. Eddie already has blocked more shots per game in a season than Horry ever did. These two don't compare very well except for height and the position they play. David.
EG=Robert Horry EG=KG Yes KG. Not the emotional side of the game but the skills are there he just needs the development.
Once Eddies has some success and gains confidence, I believe that he will become a much more agressive player that Horry. Horry is a very laid back sort of player, he seems to come to play only at Playoff time. Eddie Griffin should be a great defensive and offensive player,way above the level of Robert Horry!
Agreed, jefferson has some highlight film plays and pretty dunks but there are other nights where is totally MIA. He hasn't shown he can do much else well besides run the court on the break, and he has not been a hardworking defensive presence like Eddie has been this season. Neither of the two is particularly consistent at this stagge either.
How is Horry a better offensive player then Griffin? If you want to go by statistics then by doing your research you'll release that Eddie's 38.9% is far better than Horry's 31% from the field this season - and Horry's numbers over the last 2 years sit at 39.8% and 38.7% - he managed to squeeze out a mighty 6.8ppg last year and 5.2ppg the year before.... In contrast Eddie scored 8.8ppg last year and is currently sitting on double digits in the scoring department (something Horry hasn't achieved for over 8 years now....). Nor does Eddie turn the ball over as much as Horry - Horry's TO numbers are almost obscene for a man who hardly contributes to the scorebook - 2.2per game this year and well over a turnover per game every year of his career - in contrast Eddie is currently on 0.8tpg compared to his 0.6tpg last season. Again I ask, how is Horry a better offensive player than Griffin? While I agree that 38.9% from the field isn't great, anyone who shoots that percentage or higher from downtown (Eddie currently hits 43.8% from 3 point land) will warrant a lot of playing time in the NBA. The only thing that I can think of that Horry does well (compared to Eddie that is!) is dish out assists - I haven't seen Eddie's passing game much, perhaps because that's not the intention when he gets the ball?? I totally agree that about the only similarity between the two players is that they are 6'10...
Nailed it. Jefferson is a slightly better version of Shandon Anderson. He looks pretty good now, because he's with a terrific passing PG, and therefore gets a lot of transition opportunities and easy baskets. But in the halfcourt set, he's usually a liability with his perimeter shooting, and he struggles to create his own shot. To think Jefferson has "superstar" potential is ridiculous. Players like Jefferson are good in some systems. It doesn't work here... you'd think people would learn that from the Shandon experiment. Whether we like it or not, this isn't a fast break team. We score a lot in the halfcourt, and we need our three to be able to do two main things: create for himself off the dribble, and hit the open shot. Jefferson does neither. Griffin's going to be better than Horry. I think they have a similar offensive game, but defensively there's a huge gap. With Griffin's lack of bulk, there's going to be some nights where he shoots 4 for 13 and only has 8 or so points. But he's almost always going to go out and get you 8-10 rebounds and 2-4 blocks. And as his career progresses, he'll get better inside. Trading Jefferson and baggage for EG is a no-brainer that I would do without any hesitation given the situation again. I feel confident in saying that ten years from now, it will be looked at as one of the best trades in the history of this franchise.
Wow, it's like this place can read my mind. I don't think Eddie Griffin will become the next Robert Horry, but I will admit it has crossed my mind several times. Remember everyone comparing Horry to Pippen? I've heard people compare Eddie's shot-blocking to Hakeem. He's shown flashes, but let's hope he keeps it up. I would really like to see Eddie develop a post up game, including some aggressive moves towards the basket. He also needs to create more. Like Robert Horry, he seems to pick up his dribble and pass off way too soon. Take your time, Eddie!!!
Please don't make a mockery of this board.He's more like Horry or Camby than anything. Eddie's footwork is terrible right now and needs to hit big mans camp next yr. His explosion off the floor couild be a lot better also. I like him but he needs to improve catching and finishing towards the basket.
Did Griffin go to Newell's big man camp? EVER? If not, I think there's no better time than now for the Rockets to hir him as an assistant coach, or give him some title somewhere in the organization. Eddie Griffin and Yao Ming's develpment will be the difference between challenging the Lakers for most rings, or the Wolves for most playoff exits in the first round. I can't tell you how much Pete Newell has made in big man world. A season with Ming, Cato, and Griffin will undoubtedly add 3 or 4 games to our win column.
hey guys did yall forget that horry can pass and griffin cant????????? geez the two are nothing alike...horry looks like he has some sort of clue about what he wants to do when he gets the ball...griffin doesnt. they are similar in the sense that they both need good players on their teams to make them good, but they are by far different in the sense that horry is a good passer and griffin cant pass to save his life
Eddie Griffin just turned 20. If you're comparing a 19 year old E.G. and a 23 year old Horry, I can see some similarities. I have fond memories of Horry and my hopes for him were way off-base. But 5 rings makes for a somewhat decent life I guess. By the way, I loved Horry's shot-blocking his rookie year, but I liked Eddie's a lot better last year. Wait 'til mid-season before you think you know where E.G. is, I think he's been off to a slow (though often spectacular) start.
you can't compare the 2 just yet.. Horry is a role player and he fills the role very well.. there's a reason he camps out behind the 3 point line - and it's to space the floor and give Shaq room inside to do his thing, and the option to kick out for the 3. griffin is still young and has yet to really define his game.. he seems like a good rebounder and can score in several ways.. i think he's still got to find his niche and become exceptional at it..
You can't even compare Jefferson to Eddie, c'mon man, don't be stupid and look at their age. Jefferson was a junior or a senior when he left and griffin was just a freshman. You people need to use your brain sometimes instead of panicing. Relax. Oh, and i prefer eddie because i dont think Jefferson would provide interior defense. And if Griffin did play on the Nets, you would be drooling over him while Jefferson would be struggling to find a role on the Rockets.
The difference between your comparison and mine is that I used Horry's career stats, which I would argue are more appropriate for determining if Griffin is going to become another Horry... I don't think he is. OTOH, you're taking off on whether Griffin *now* is a better player than Horry *now*. He's a better player *now* than Olajuwan, too. And better than Wilt Chamberlain is, now. Probably a better basketball player than Abe Lincoln, for what that is worth. I would point out that you seem determined to gloss over Griffin's biggest offensive problem. 28 of 72 is NOT the kind of offensive stat that will keep him in the NBA, even if some people are somehow impressed by 7 of 16 from 3 point land. Problem is, those 56 shots he took when he was closer to the basket, were scored at a 37.5% clip. That is ugly, and there is no other word for it. Power forwards tend to have high fg percentages, and his sucks. Hopefully as Griff grows into his frame, that will change. In terms of season efficiency rating, Griffin is worth 82 points. How does this break down? scoring portion: points scored - missed fg - missed ft. 69 - ( 72 - 28 ) - ( 10 - 6 ) = 21 points non-scoring portion: rebounds + assists + steals + blocked shots - turnovers 45 + 5 + 16 - 5 = 61 points So, of Griffin's offensive worth, 25.6% of it is his shooting, as measured by efficiency rating. Another way to measure scoring efficiency is to divide points scored by shot attempts (PSA).. we'll count shot attempts as field goal attempts + 0.4* free throw attempts This gives us 72 + 0.4*(10) = 76 shot attempts. Griffin has scored 69 points, but he's done it on 76 shot attempts. That's a points per shot attempt of 0.907, well below the NBA average of 1.02 points per shot attempt. By contrast, Kenny Thomas had a PSA of 1.05 last year, and Mo Taylor had one of 1.04, in his last healthy season. Let's be plain spoken, Griffin's shooting does not keep him in the NBA. It's his emerging skills as a defender and his established skills as a rebounder and a shot blocker.
