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Economic Inequality: It’s Far Worse Than You Think (Scientific American)

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by HamJam, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Good point about the banks.

    I like your ideas but I don't think we can convince these corporations to do anything.

    I don't agree with the revolution idea because of the social divide which keeps us from being one powerful group of people. They started building concentration camps in the 90's. The government is prepared for that.
     
  2. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Please enlighten us on what FEMA has been hiding...
     
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    You can be skeptical but even breaking down the numbers by regions and groups this is still a problem. Estimates are there are 12 million illegal immigrants in the country. The US population is about 370 million so those 12 million make up only about 3% of the population so not much of a factor when we're looking at the population as a whole. The 40 million immigrants you cite are about 11% of the population so more significant but at the same time just being an immigrant doesn't mean that they are destitute or that they don't have the skills and background to rapidly prosper. For example much of US immigration policy is geared towards bringing in the most skilled immigrants while there are also several programs that essentially allow immigrants to buy there way into the US. Granted most immigrants will start out with less wealth than people who have been here a long time just by the fact that the US is wealthier than most countries. That said if you look into who is coming here, legally, these are a very self-selected group who are among the most educated and motivated. So an Indian programmer coming here on an H1-B visa is probably less wealthy than most Americans but probably doesn't factor much as part of an endemic wealth disparity.


    Next you are right that there are some big regional disparities so that the cost of living in the Bay Area is greater than Minneapolis which is greater than Hattiesburg MS. Taking that into account though if you just look at region to region wealth disparity is causing many problems and some of the greatest are in some of the areas with the wealthiest. California is one of the wealthiest states in the country but has some big disparities regarding cost of housing and services between the wealthy and the poor. San Jose and Salinas are only about a half hour drive apart yet there are vast disparities in things education and health between the two. In Houston you only need to drive between River Oaks and the Third Ward to see how different wealth disparities lead to very different outcomes.

    So yes this is a real problem in the US and one that if left unchecked will only get worse.
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    As far as what we can do about it I admit there aren't any easy answers. Here are a few things that I've thought of:
    1. Better social safety net. A big drag on wealth is having to pay for things like insurance and housing. When people know that having medical emergency might not bankrupt them or getting a decent place to live I think that will help encourage saving and other wealth creating activities among the middle and lower classes. While I think that the ACA is a start it doesn't go nearly far enough to guaranteeing that everyone has access to affordable and comprehensive health care. The same goes for retirement. While yes not enough people save for it to begin with given the unpredictable of the markets a better system that guarantees that people will not end up destitute when they are old will also help with economic disparity. Education is another factor especially when college prices are skyrocketing along with student loan dept.

    2. Restructuring of taxes. This is two parts. I agree that our estate tax system is very flawed and essentially helps to retain a hereditary aristocracy of inherited wealth.
    The second is going to be much more controversial but I think we need a flatter and much simpler tax code. Now before my progressive friends jump down my throat here me out. Mitt Romney during the election let people know that he paid 15% in taxes while many others who earn far less than Mitt paid less than taxes. Our tax system really awards both the very rich and the working poor and not so much those in the middle. That is not what we want for income mobility. A system that is far simpler with far fewer breaks and loopholes and also flatter will actually end up being more progressive than the system we have now. At the same time another huge benefit it will have is taking money away from accountants and tax lawyers to be used for more productive uses.

    I have a couple of more suggestions but will get to them later.
     
  5. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    Back in the early and even mid 20th century the idea of the General Strike was able to unify the various now separate groups into a fairly unified labor movement. My hope is that a General Boycott could help bring people together again in order to make revolution possible. I would agree we need to work together to be effective though, and that we are not unified enough to do so now.

    I don't entirely disagree, but education is not enough to get people mobilized and involved. You have to start doing actions that people think can have an impact and through which they think they can have an impact by joining. Then, when they are involved in the action, then they will be more receptive to the knowledge and information you are trying to share.

    Knowledge without action does not radicalize people, it bores them.

    If you do it on large enough of scale and in a coordinated and systematic manner it will. A single strike never has much effect on the economic system as a whole -- but a General Strike, that toppled governments and changed a lot of things in the world. I think a General Boycott could have a similar effect.

    Why do you say that? It is an attempt to destroy the power of corporations, not to control them.

    I'll make you a deal -- I'll support any third party someone like you is able to get on the ballot pushing these solutions you mention, and, in return, if you aren't able to do that or it never works, and, you see people in the street espousing revolutionary direct action, you'll give them your support. Deal?
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    To get back to my suggestions on what can be done regarding income inequality.
    3. Better transit. Because our infrastructure is so car dependent it is difficult in many places to be productively employed without having a car. Just imagine how much more productive that guy in Detroit who walked 20 miles a day would've been if he could've gotten to work easily. As the guy in Detroit though shows that many have a hard time affording a car and even those who can the cost of purchasing, maintaining and insuring a car is a burden that could be addressed with better transit.

    4. Better development. In addition to better transit if housing is closer to work, education and other things a lot of time, money and effort spent in commuting could be used more productively.
     
  7. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Maybe eventually that could happen. But it's possible if the government was to crumble today... It may be a middle east situation over here and or the United States as we know it would cease to exist. There are already people out there who want their states to break away from the union.

    Isn't the employment rate in NYC bad...?
     
  8. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Excuse me... I mean doesn't NYC have a high unemployment rate..?
     

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