1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Eastern Conf. Finals] Cavs vs. Magic

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Rockets34Legend, May 17, 2009.

?

King James vs. Superman

  1. Cavs in 4

    8 vote(s)
    3.4%
  2. Cavs in 5

    34 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. Cavs in 6

    44 vote(s)
    18.6%
  4. Cavs in 7

    42 vote(s)
    17.7%
  5. Magic in 4

    2 vote(s)
    0.8%
  6. Magic in 5

    11 vote(s)
    4.6%
  7. Magic in 6

    74 vote(s)
    31.2%
  8. Magic in 7

    22 vote(s)
    9.3%
  1. ubigred

    ubigred Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,363
    Likes Received:
    127
    Mike Brown specialty is defense. He hired a "offensive coordinator" to help on offense.

    I give him credit for that unlike JVG, Brown put aside his ego for the good of the team.
     
  2. ubigred

    ubigred Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,363
    Likes Received:
    127
    Dirk lost in the first round avg like 13 points. He was the leader only in name, not by performance.
     
  3. leebigez

    leebigez Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,783
    Likes Received:
    766
    They couldve kept tracy and made the moves they made except lewis. The lewis deal was because they got hill's contract off the books. That was the anchor right there.
     
  4. goodbug

    goodbug Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    LBJ had lots of blocks highlight, but he's not the kind of defensive player you see from Battier, who did he shut down in parameter to begin with? Hell, Kobe guarded Billups all series and LBJ was on Alston.

    And don't fall into ESPN propaganda. Mo isn't having a career year. His stats

    2008 .48 3.5 6.3 17.2
    2009 .467 3.4 4.1 17.8

    I'd take 08's stats any day of the week.

     
  5. lalala902102001

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2002
    Messages:
    6,629
    Likes Received:
    445
    Do you realize that all of those players you mentioned played on non-playoffs teams before they joined the Cavs? That tells how big an impact they had on their teams.

    Now for the specifics: Mo Williams is not an all star -- Lebron made him an all star. Ben Wallce was on his last legs when he was dumped by Chicago (again he should not even be in the league right now). Gooden is a good role player and nothing more -- the Bulls tried to make him their primary post option because they had no one else and their record was horrible with Gooden as their main post guy (Chicago's turnaround in the season happended after Gooden was traded). And don't even mention Wally World.
     
  6. leebigez

    leebigez Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,783
    Likes Received:
    766
    Which would you rather have a guy that scores 40 and his man scores 15 or a guy scores 5 and his man scores 30? Shane cant control lbj unless he has a huge tilt. People thought maxwell was jordan stopper until he went to philly and mj dropped the double nickle. How did shane do guarding ronny brewer or al thorton or john salmons?
     
  7. goodbug

    goodbug Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    Mo had worse stats than last year, LBJ didn't make him a better player. And I remembered media was raving Wally would get more open look because he had LBJ, didn't happen. Or let's put it this way, who did LBJ make better?



     
  8. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    20,568
    Likes Received:
    256
    I didn't realize Nelson was drafted the same year as Howard. What was the trade that brought him to Orlando or did he sign as a FA?

    Either way, you could be right but I find it hard to believe that had they kept McGrady they would be as well off as they are right now whether that's Lewis, Hedo, Pietrus, etc... Maybe they don't even sign Hedo for the MLE if McGrady was still in the mix at the time they did sign him. His physical decline was probably inevitable and had they resigned him, they would have certainly had to pass up on some other player that is contributing right now. A lot of things would have been different and I think it's pretty reasonable to make the argument that getting rid of McGrady turned out to be a big positive for them. They sacrificed short term gains (if you want to call it that given how McGrady's last season there went) and it paid off.
     
  9. ubigred

    ubigred Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,363
    Likes Received:
    127
    So will Morey have the balls to do it? In regards to Tmac or Yao?
     
  10. goodbug

    goodbug Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    Sure I'd rather my main guy get 30 and the opposition 5, with my roles getting more touches on offensive ends. Balanced scoring is lethal, and shutting down Lewis or Turk certainly helps more than scoring 10 more points.

    You are not trusting your teammates if you hold the ball in every possession.

     
  11. lalala902102001

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2002
    Messages:
    6,629
    Likes Received:
    445
    The answer is everyone, as evident by their combined records before and after joining the Cavs.
     
  12. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 1999
    Messages:
    9,624
    Likes Received:
    7,930
    Let me know when Shane Battier expends any significant energy on the offensive end please? He plays essentially on one end of the court. LeBron doesn't. Also, I don't know why Brown had him on Alston. But LeBron has the ability and length to guard any position on the floor. He could guard Billups like Kobe, etc.

    As far as Williams stats go, I was wrong, Williams didn't have a career year. But I'd say it's more impressive to put up those numbers on a 66 win team than a lottery bound team in Milwaukee. Plus, he shot much better from the 3 point line as a Cavalier than a Buck. 44% from 3 in Cleveland compared to 39% in Milwaukee.
     
  13. leebigez

    leebigez Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,783
    Likes Received:
    766
    I mean who knows, really? They got nelson as part of tracy trade i believe, i'll recheck. Point being, the gm wasnt scared to move a star player and he took the lesser package. Indy was offering a better package , but the gm didn't want to trade him to a team that was so close and in the same conference. What he did do is take the traded pieces and traded those for shorter contracts. He traded mobley for christie which was expiring and traded francis for penny which was also shorter. At the same time , he signed a few players and drafted a few and then hill's contract expired. That crazy paul trade scenerio, thats what i said can be done with someone like peja. Just because u get a guy, u can still move him for shorter or 2 lesser players. Dumars sign and traded grant hill for ben wallace and chucky atkins, how great was that?
     
  14. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,051
    It's become pretty clear to me that the Magic are the best team in basketball. I'm amazed with their balance on offense. They have five different guys with size that can go off for 20 points in any game and their four perimeter guys (Hedo, Rashard, Pietrus, and Lee) don't just shoot jumpers, they can get to the bucket whenever they want which is really shocking. If they give effort on defense I don't think anyone can beat them.

    If LeBron were smart he'd go sign with Orlando and destroy the league for the next 10 years.
     
  15. BrooksBall

    BrooksBall Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    20,568
    Likes Received:
    256
    I do think Howard would have developed roughly the same with or without McGrady though because of the type of player he is.

    The bottom line is that if they didn't move McGrady when they did and then ended up resigning him like we did, it's very easy to think that McGrady would be sidelined and not contributing while taking up a huge chunk of their payroll since his physical decline was an inevitability. His presence would also mean they didn't acquire 1 or more of the current contributing players on this team.

    My gut tells me the Magic are not 1 game away from the finals today if they didn't unload McGrady back in 2004. A lot of the same issues surrounding McGrady today would be Orlando's problems right now. I could be totally wrong, this is just my guess.

    I know you like McGrady, leebigez. I did too at one time but that ship has sailed. Even if I don't believe some of the rumors and hype about him, one thing is for sure. His body wasn't built to last 10+ years in this league like many other players on the same pay scale.
     
  16. ubigred

    ubigred Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,363
    Likes Received:
    127
    Name five guys?
     
  17. leebigez

    leebigez Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,783
    Likes Received:
    766
    What killing cleveland other than the matchups is u have to guard everyone. On cleveland, orlando can guard everyone. When the game is close, u put the ball in the hands of your best player, thats the rule and he makes the decision. When the team loses, they don't point at williams or varejo, they point at james. He trust them just as the coach trust him to make the best decision with the ball. Having to guard a player on defense is effecting him more than anything right now.
     
  18. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,051

    Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, Mickael Pietrus, and Courtney Lee.
     
  19. leebigez

    leebigez Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    15,783
    Likes Received:
    766
    I dont like mcgrady anymore than i do anyone else in the league. I'm just saying that they made the right choice and thats what matters, but it was moves besides the mcgrady deal is what is manifesting itself. I like the way they took bpa availible evn in win now mode and backed lee up with a vet. Thats something the rox shouldve done.
     
  20. vstexas09

    vstexas09 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    10,165
    Likes Received:
    538
    so the magic would beat the cavs any given day.....and the only hope for the cavs are the refs...
     

Share This Page