E3 2005 - PS3 and XBOX360 discussion found here Thanks Beard of Dan Higgs!

Again, there's no way I can look at things completely like an average gamer. I've gotten way too interested in all that technical aspects of these consoles, and have appreciated the technical ability of one particular console.

That said, I wouldn't doubt it if Sony can win over the geeks and the average gamers if they just need some buzz and some good games. Sony is great at creating a buzz; just ask Sega about that. I'm itching to see what Sony has under their sleeve for stealing the buzz for the Xbox 360. Maybe a $99 PS2.

However, there's nothing like being the first next-gen console out when it comes to buzz, especially when you will be getting support from EA and other developers/publishers.

IIRC, Microsoft has failed in some markets despite their money supply, although I'm not quite familiar with MS enough to name them all. I'm thinking MSN may have been one of them. Maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about?


If the console market is really important to Microsoft, they may eventually overtake Sony. I'm not quite sure how much they want to pour in though given some of the moves they make, especially when it comes to saving money, even if it means a lesser product. Maybe Microsoft isn't content with the Xbox franchise losing billions of dollars for 10+ years just to knock Sony out of the market.

Plus, its not like the gaming market isn't important to Sony; in fact, its the exact opposite. Without the console division, Sony probably would have gone under by now. They rely HEAVILY on SCE for profits. There is no way they'll give up this market very easily.

It may depend on how soon Sony can start getting profits on the PS3. It seems like it takes 3-4 years at least to start making good money on a console, which is why I think Microsoft is making a mistake by going too early, IMO. Like the PS1 and PS2, the PS3 will see support from Sony for quite a while, even if the PS4 comes out in 5 or so years.

Personally, I could see an even bigger jump with the PS4 than with the PS3, especially if Cell is a big success. Since Cell is easily scalable, Sony can use it for the PS4 just like it has for the PS3; instead of pouring money into designing some custom chip for the PS4, they can just stick a couple of Cell chips into the PS4. I would guess that they could easily put a 4x32 setup in the PS4, and at higher clockspeeds (maybe 5GHz-ish). It could even be more than that, but that right there is an incredible jump over the Cell in the PS3 (if I did my FLOPS right, that would be over a teraflop more performance with just the SPE's alone). And luckily for PS3 developers, the PS4 will be using the same basic architecture which will run the same code. Depending on what they do with a GPU (could be another Cell), a PS3 dev could probably put his game on that console without needing to change any code whatsoever. So many options Sony could have with the PS4 that would make it an uber-powerful console without the price of an uber-powerful console.

Also, while the PS3 demos looked extremely impressive, there are still things that these consoles can't do, so I would guess that we might still be open to a new console in another 5-6 years. Maybe not as badly though since it seems the PS2 hasn't aged as badly as the PS1, so the PS3 may not age as bad either. However, I would start expecting some incredible (photorealistic pretty much) graphics from the next next-gen, so I'm going to be looking forward to that.

Ok, it seems like there is a video of the Madden/FIFA/NBA Live pics I showed earlier. You can find a video here, IIRC:
http://www.xboxyde.com/index_en.html

If it will take a long time to download the video, you can check out this pics from the video:

Madden 2006

http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/madden.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/madden1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/madden2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/madden3.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/madden4.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/madden5.jpg


NBA Live 2006

http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba3.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba4.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba5.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba6.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba7.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba8.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba9.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba10.jpg
http://members.cox.net/bdoughty1/nba11.jpg

I don't really have much to say after seeing those (and not even in motion). THAT is next-gen, IMO. If games do look like that, which I believe they will since it sounded like these two were running in realtime, then it will be hard for most to wait until the PS3. Too bad it is from EA.

To go along with that, there seems to be an ATI tech demo running on final Xbox 360 hardware at E3. I haven't downloaded it yet, but it sounds impressive. Check it out here:
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_1610_en.html

 

But does it lead its area? If so, I probably got something mixed up, especially if they're making a profit off of it. I'm drawing a blank on the things Microsoft did on the side, but I thinking that not everything Microsoft put money into turned out to be what they expected.

Sorry if I sound so ignorant about these things. I should know it, but I'm drawing blanks right now.

edit: I think I was thinking about MSN. I just looked up MSN on Wikipedia, and it looks like there is quite a gap between it and AOL. Of course, it could still be profitable...but then again, so are the Nintendo consoles and everyone always acts like they're doomed.

 

Maybe because...get out you notepad and a pen...ready...maybe because I do care about the games (and other things, but mostly games). Yeah, I care a lot about the specs and whatnot, but the console that offers me the games I like will get my purchase. If either Microsoft or Nintendo can steal away PS2 exclusives from Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Koei, Capcom, Namco, Square-Enix, etc., and somehow the studios from SCEA, SCEA, and SCEJ, then I would probably get an Xbox 360/Revolution even if the PS3 had 20 Teraflops of more power. I don't see Sony losing too many exclusives though given the words of several devs about the PS3, and in fact, they might be able to steal some away from the other two consoles (Resident Evil series, something from Bioware, Ninja Gaiden, PC ports).

FWIW though, I've been surprised at how the PS2 has kept up with the other consoles in graphics. Burnout has always looked good on it (G4 commented on how it looked better than NFS:Most Wanted on the X360), and the RE4 port doesn't seem like too much of a downgrade. The PS2 is a pain to code for, but proper development shows that it can do some amazing things that compare well to games on the other two consoles.

 

I normally talk about specs and hardware because that's the easiest thing to talk about when it comes to next-gen consoles and what to expect. I don't know what online plans there will be, what developers will do on each console, etc., since basically only the specs are known. By reading the specs, which would include the types of developer support (CG,XNA, OpenGL, etc.), I can at least try to guess what games will be like. Power isn't everything, but it is a way for developers to give us their vision in a much more believable way. When I see numbers on Cell, RSX, and Blu-ray, I get excited from a technical POV. But I also start wondering what Hideo Kojima must be planning to do with all that power. He can create a huge and detailed environment, complete with superb lighting effects that really have an effect on gameplay. I've already read that the AI in UT2K7 will be much better than what we have today, telling you exactly what's going on instead of just "I'm hit" or whatever else we're limited to today. EA and VC may one day be able to use Cell (and the XCPU for that matter), using real physics for animation in their games, instead of mo-cap, allowing for much more realistic and varied animations. The Eyetoy and its successor, together with Cell, can create new types of gameplay, leaving controllers to collect dust. That's what new hardware can do for games, and I'm excited for what it can bring.

Part of what makes all this new hardware info so great is reading what the developers think about it. Seeing guys like Tetsuya Mizuguchi, Tim Sweeney, David Jaffe, Kazunori Yamauchi, etc., talk about next-gen hardware and what they plan to do on it gives me chills down my spine. When they're as giddy as a schoolgirl, so am I.

As for the hype in specs, I know what to expect when reading specs. I know the PS2 will never put own 66-77 million polygons, just like I know the Xbox can't put out 130 million. I know that the teraflop numbers being thrown out by Sony and Microsoft are about as true the Phantom's November '04 release date. I try to make realistic assumptions based on the specs just like I would make realistic assumptions on Mario The Taxi Driver (made that up obviously, but man has Nintendo been whoring him out) and Microsoft's XNA, which I haven't heard about in a while. I realize that not every game made by Nintendo will be meet its hype (Zelda The Wind Waker, in a ways) and that maybe Microsoft just puts fancy names for their software development (is XNA just the next DirectX?). Like you said, each company hypes their own thing, and a lot of times, they fail to reach it. But I don't really see how Sony fails to do that any more than other companies, especially if you keep a steady mind. Sure, the EE didn't take over the world, but it did its job very well, just like Zelda: The Wind Waker wasn't what every Nintendo owner wanted, but it turned out to be a pretty good game.

About the disappointment in Cell

I'm not disappointed by Cell exactly, just how Sony put it into the PS3. And considering Sony's never really said anything about what they planned to do about Cell in the PS3 when it came to the configuration, that could be like me being disappointed by the fact that I couldn't fly around with wings in God of War. Cell itself still seems to be a monster given the demos showing it off. I was only disappointed by the fact that Sony may have been able to up the specs a tad bit to allow for another 25-50 flops of power in the console. Of course, they still can if they decide to up the clockspeeds (which they did to the EE, IIRC), but keep in mind that I was basing this off of a late 2006 launch. If Sony's going to start producing these things late this year or early next-year, a 218 Flop version of Cell isn't too bad at all.

To follow that up though, I've also been a little disappointed by some aspects of the Xbox 360, which is somewhat related to the Cell disappointment. I was expecting 3.5 GHz cores, but the XCPU is 3.2, just like the Cell PPE (most likely related to IBM somehow). I was initially let down by the 256 MB of ram too, which they upped thank goodness. As for Nintendo, I don't really have anything to disappoint or wow me, but I'm not expecting too much, unfortunately. While I am interested in their approach, if they don't put together a powerful system (which it may not given the size), there will be some disappointment there. Whatever they come up with, I'm sure it will be nice and have its advantages, but there will be times when gamers just want to play Madden with realistic physics, detailed players, and so on. If the Revolution can't handle that like the PS3 and Xbox 360 can, I'll be disappointed. So basically, I'm disappointed in Cell just like I'm disappointed in all these things. I don't think it is necessarily fair to say Nintendo and Microsoft hyped all that, just like Sony didn't hype the fact that the PS3 Cell would be some 6GHz 8x64 setup. Hope that clarifies what I meant when I was disappointed by Cell.

As for broadening my scope of gaming to everything not named Playstation, I'd love to. Send me a check for $1000 so I can buy the GC, Xbox, DS, Gizmondo, new graphics card, and accessories, plus maybe $300 or so a month to keep up with all the new releases and monthly online subscriptions; if you can do that, I'm sure you'll find the most unbiased gamer ever. But since I doubt that will happen, I'll have to stick to paying for my own games and consoles. Seeing as how I can barely keep up with new releases for the PS2 (I played GoW and MGS3 way after their releases), there's no way I could keep with even two consoles, especially if next-gen games take much more involvement from the gamer (more capacity + higher prices=longer games?). I imagine it would be worse to not be able to afford the next Zelda game even though you own a GC, instead of just not owning a GC, giving you a reason not to get Zelda. Well, I guess I could just get a GC and get a pirated copy of Zelda for $5...but then I'm sure devs like DaDakota would love me for supporting that type of thing.

FWIW, I have one friend who has an Xbox and, while he personally doesn't own it, a GC, but he doesn't seem any different from me when it comes his opinions on all this stuff. He's played plenty of Ninja Gaiden, Halo 1&2, Fable (IIRC), PGR, Zelda, RE4, DOA, SSB, and much more, but he's shown the same excitement as I have for the PS3 (BTW, I don't know if I made it clear, but he has a PS2 as well). We've been talking about Sony and their presentation this whole week pretty much, as well as what we didn't like about the Microsoft and Nintendo showings. If you call me a Sony fanboy, might as well call him one too, even though he's played all the great games I probably would be playing if I had the other consoles. I guess I could spend days at his house, spending countless hours into those games, but considering how he is, I don't see how my opinion would change that much. I'd have played a lot of great games, but you'd still be calling me a Sony fanboy.

All that said, I'll try my best to open up myself next-gen. I doubt I'll buy an Xbox 360 given what they've shown thus far, but I'll try to find ways to play it. I'm going to try and own people at Madden and NBA 2K6. I'd like to get a taste of TES IV: Oblivion to see if I'll get it for my PS3 later on. I'm sure I may have similar feelings towards other games for the Xbox 360 and Revolution as well. That said, unless something drastic happens (me winning lotto, Ken Kutaragi revealing he's the devil, PS3 costs $1000 and breaks in 5 minutes, etc.) between now and 2006, I'll probably only own one next-gen console.

BTW, one thing I forgot to add is that I do play a lot of PC games (explaining my interest in TES), although I'm sure if that fits your request that I spend considerable time away from Playstation. Some games I played included Doom 3 (man, did that suck), KOTOR, NWN, and Morrowind. I might start becoming more of a console gamer now though since my video card is starting to show its age, and there's no way I'm going to spend money on a video card now when I could just wait a little longer and get more performance for less money when next-gen hits. I envy the person that owns every console AND keeps up with PC gaming. Probably spends more in a year than I have my whole gaming life.

As for you Microsoft post, I pretty much agree for the most part. Let's just see if Microsoft can capitalize on all that.

Kind of went drifting off-topic a little bit there, but I hope that shows how I feel towards games.