WOOOOW, was the dude high when he listed those player ? OK Tim duncan he is a hall of famer, but he is a PF not A C. OK come on are u series BIG Z??? really ???? come on man. David Robinson is one of the best center of all time, and you put him behind JA, Ben wallace, and Amare stoudmire. it really piss u off when u see those sport ignorant writers post non commen sense, in my opinion it all wrong. My List. 1-Shaq 2-Yao Ming 3-David Robinson 4-Dwight Howard 5-Dikembe Mutambo 6-Alonse Morning 7-Ben wallace 8-Jermaine O'Neil 9-Amare Stoudmire 10-Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Since 2002(the year Yao was drafted), Yao Ming has played in 481 regular season games while Jermaine Oneal played in 429 during the same stretch. Since you base your rankings on PER, Yao Ming has a higher Defensive Efficiency Rating than Jermaine O'neal based on this. Also, why is defence weighted so heavily. Last I checked, making shots was also important. Yao Ming draws constant doubles and warrants a lot of attention on offence whereas a Ben Wallace practically gets ignored.
What about player C that makes First Team All-NBA salary yet plays 50 games every year? You still have that player ranked ahead of Yao even though Yao is much better, paid less and plays in roughly the same or more games. You're the writer and you're the master but if I were making this list I would definitely have to consider how good a player is and accomplished relative to how much he's paid. If you need a clue as to who i'm talking about, here's a hint: check the Miami Heat clubhouse -- he's already hurt. Personally, as great of a list as this is I think it speaks volumes to how weak the center position has become. There's only three legitimate franchise players on that list (Shaq, Duncan, Dwight) with two borderline franchise players (Yao, Amare) followed by two former franchise players, who at that point in their career were older and approaching 'washed up' status (Zo, Robinson). The rest? Sigh.....barely even worth mentioning. We wouldn't have this problem at any other position. Would we?
Doesn't that even underscore more just how mediocre a player Big Z is? I mean, would the Cavs trade for Shaq if they had a 90% Yao? I use 90% since KD claims Z played at near Yao's level.
Kelly messed up here. First of all, Duncan is a power forward. If you want to say top best big man or top best f/c, that's one thing. But Duncan is a more face to the basket type. He doesn't belong here. Second of all, Ben Wallace ahead of Yao?????? Zydrunas Ilgauskas??? Jermaine O'Neal???? Even Amare is highly questionable. I'm sorry, but Yao is a dominant player. And definitely up there with Dwight Howard because they are comparable. I'll accept putting Howard over Yao because it's not clear cut - but c'mon, these other guys???? Maybe if they just look at stats or something but Jermaine O'Neal was great for maybe half a season tops. He has a amazing year just 1 year and then had the fight and never got back to form.
Kelly, I won't get into saying I agree or disagree with you, that's all opinionated and moot. However, you did rate Tracy at number 2 or 3 on the SF list I believe based on the fact that "when healthy", he's almost unparalleled in what he does. Very true, indisputable, regardless of people throwing in their hurt feelings about his character flaws. Now, with that said, most people would argue the same for Yao that, "when healthy," he's stellar and almost unparalleled as well. Without researching, and I may be wrong, but both seemingly have missed a similarly huge number of games in their careers. So unless you're counting a lot of other flaws aside from injuries against Yao, I just don't see that as very consistent in your rankings. But then again, I'm also assuming you see it like most homers and fans, seeing T-Mac and Yao as equally GREAT players at 2 different positions.
so to kelly's logic, richard jefferson would be considered a better player than grant hill, career-wise?
his changes his criteria which make his analysis inconsistent. well im sure he appreciates all the clutchfans hits.
I'd say a main problem in his the "greatest" was that Kelly D tried to be clever and based his ranking in function instead of position. Unfortunately positions in the NBA have been sort of a gray area-Duncan would be a good example. In offense Duncan mans the low post while his "c" works in a different area. But on D to save wear and tear on his body Pop made Duncan guard the lesser of the opponent's pf or c...usually the opponent's pf as they are usually smaller than the c's of other teams. Not only that he wasn't consistent as well. Gasol somehow ended up being a pf when he plays C just like Duncan. Shawn Marion became PF when he really is just an athletic SF, Amare ended up a C when his body type is really for a PF, and Tmac somehow became an SF despite playing with Battier for the past few years. IMHO he really should have just put players in the official position they play in. It would have made things much easier and that way you could compare his list with other people.
Gentlemen.... ...in my humbly honest opinion... ,,,I feel that the best way to know what position a guy is playing in the NBA is to determine whether or not he can defend it. Most of the tenor of my posts here have been slanted towards a player's offensive production. That's by design. At this level, I personally expect a player to at least be able to hold their own defensiely at the position they play. Not everybody is a good defender, but for the most part, it is a discipline I believe (and expect) a guy making millions of dollars to play this game to have somewhere. If you have a guy plaing point guard that can't defend other point guards, thar's not a very good thing. But if you have enough good teammates (and shrewd coaching), depending on how important that player is to your team's system and success (Steve Nash), by and large, your team gets away with it. For big men, it's easy. The player who's responsible for defending the basket and rebounding is the center. Doesn't matter where the media guide says he plays. It's what he does for his team that counts. Offensively, Hakeem Olajuwon was more power forward than center. But he defended the basket and blocked shots and rebounded better than most centers. Tim Duncan, in spite of what anybody thinks, has always been a center. Even playing with David Robinson, Duncan's responsibilities on defense were in the paint. avid Robinson was always an overgrown small forward, to me, but that didn;t mean that The Admiral couldn't and didn't man the post as well as anybody who's ever played. Try to think defense, fellas. Whichever spot a guy defends ON THE COURT is what that player's position is. Shaquille O'Neal didn't start winning until he listened to Phil Jackson and started to rebound and defend the post better....
KD, I get your logic. no conference finals, no mvps, no dpoys, no rings. constant injuries. but the last season wasn't enough to sway you to put yao a little higher?
But even last year Yao got injured when it matters most. Skills wise, Yao is above most of the centers and is third best on this list. But the guy has been injured every time it matters.
There certainly is a difference if you're talking about which player you'd rather have going forward. Amar'e is less likely to miss games in future years than Yao because of the reason you give. But if we're talking about the years they've already played, it's irrelevant why they missed the games. I also think it's funny that part of your defense of Jermaine O'Neal over Yao (which I don't actually have a problem with) is O'Neal's superior defense, yet you don't consider the fact that Amar'e Stoudamire is a complete defensive liability, while Yao has actually been an effective anchor to one of the league's best defenses throughout his career.
Robinson played center more for defensive purposes than offensive. His offensive game was very much more akin to a power forward. Ewing played both. He did a lot of back to the basket stuff. He definitely was a center. At the end of the day, there's a lot of interchangeability. But if you are going to call Duncan a center, fine...but to me, that diminishes his status because while he may be one of the best power forwards of all time, to put him above Shaq as a center is just ridiculous.
It's justifiable since during the latter years of this decade, Shaq's game has noticeably declined whereas Duncan's has remained solid.
