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Dwight is done as an elite player

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    Oh like RPM? Harden > Howard in RPM as well.
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Or RAPM, Howard>Harden
     
  3. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    Or BPM, PER, VORP, WAR, win shares, Harden > Howard
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    The problem is there aren't really any good stats for defense, and that's where most of Howard's value is.

    By multi year RAPM, which is the best to use for +/- because there's less noise, Howard is gaining grown in Harden (28 vs 17). And that's including Hardens great pervious play and Howard's injury prone time.

    Howard is still a positive on offense because he rebounds and shoots 60% from the field. Harden is a huge negative on defense, one of the worst ever perhaps
     
  5. Zergling

    Zergling Member

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    Howard is most definitely not a positive on offense as indicated by his RPM. He's a terribly inefficient post up player, turnover prone, and is once again a poor free throw shooter.
     
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    think you're using the turnover prone attribute on the wrong player
     
  7. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Dream would cuss guys out if he didn't get the ball where he liked it. Howard is consistently fed the ball at inopportune times, or just flat out bad entry passes, and since he can't make a 15 foot dream shake he's a useless offensive player? Ok.

    Learn how to use him better. Team should have nabbed Rondo but oh Yea then the contingent brings up shooting. Again.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
     
  8. Tom Bombadillo

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    Honestly, Lawson can facilitate as good as Rondo If he has the ball, AND he can shoot a bit.

    The problem is PGs and Harden don't mix, and our coaches don't have the cajones to make it mix...
     
  9. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    True enough, but Rondo can play hella defense and rebound his ass off.
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    His offensive RPM is positive. It is literally not negative
     
  11. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    It is crazy that he picked that quarter as an example. The Rockets sucked that quarter, and Dwight was -17 in the second quarter. Of course, Harden played much of that quarter as well and was -16.

    In fact last night specifically, the team played really well with Harden in and Dwight out... so it was weird for him to point that out.

    I like looking at gameflows here:
    http://www.popcornmachine.net/

    Of course against the Spurs Harden was -36 to Dwight's -6.

    So it is also at least a fair point to note you have to look at the big picture. And the big picture includes lots of games and looking at lineups overall, and even at opponent lineups compared to your lineup. It's BIG DATA that mere mortals can't figure out on their own! ;)

    You can see some of the lineup stats (5 man, 4 man, 3 man, 2 man combos) at basketball reference: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01/lineups/2016/

    Going on a tangent, but a reason why I think the "blame DM" narrative is crazy is because a lot of the data and obvious things that should have happened just don't. Last year, James and Dwight played great together. This year, James and Dwight are still a good combo, but James has a better net point differential with Capela (both on a 5 man basis and 2 man basis). Last year, even though the total minutes were limited, Dwight and Jones played well together in the regular season. In fact it was Dwight's best net point differential (per 100 possessions) with any other player. This year, TJones and Dwight are the worst combo (TJones just isn't good with anyone this year, he's taken such a huge step back).

    Lawson should have been integrated easily into the team by any coach worth their salt. Obviously didn't happen.

    Look, I love what Dwight can bring to the team. But I'd put Dwight winning a championship as other than an obvious average role player on some team in the future at 1% or less. Meaning it's VERY hard to see him as guy 1/2/3 on a championship team in the next 3-5 years. If he can find his way to the Cavs soon then he has a chance. This isn't because he isn't a great defender and a valuable member of a team. It's because he's going to demand one more big contract, and someone will give it to him. And moreso than the fact that it might be hard to build your roster overpaying Dwight is the fact that he and his team will be cognizant of him as one of the "big contract" guys on the team and it's just not a dynamic that works with him anymore.

    He's not an elite player anymore. He's still really really good. But he is and will demand to continue to be overpaid. And the team is REALLY bad at what his strength is, despite it being his strength, to no fault of his own.
     
  12. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    This thread looks really inaccurate now.

    Wow.

    Too bad the rest of team isn't any good.

    Edited for clarity
     
    #332 Mr. Clutch, Jan 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  13. FTW Rockets FTW

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    It's the DD Curse ;)

    He should start a thread saying Harden is done as top 15 player in this league :grin:
     
  14. underrated015

    underrated015 Member

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    dwight has his flaws but without him, we are talking about lottery pick in the upcoming draft.
     
  15. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    somewhat a side comment,

    The issue that we were not prepared coming out of pre-season is used to blame people, without including the fact that Dwight had tightness in his back and had to sat out the entire pre-season (including a lot of practices), together with nursing his minutes at the beginning of the season.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Still not an ELITE player, but is proving to have a lot left in the tank.

    I would still let him walk at the end of the year.

    DD
     
  17. Pen15clubber

    Pen15clubber Member

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    Dwight is the man


    -PC
     
  18. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Unless he opts in right?
     
  19. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Member

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    How about we stop making absolute statements until the end of the season? You can't make a decision based on unfinished results
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Member

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    to or sit. It can work either way. :p
     

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