1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Dwight inside out or Harden n Lin dribble penetration

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by NotApollo33, May 30, 2013.

?

Dwight centric inside out vs Harden Lin dribble penetration pick n roll

  1. High pick n roll + Run n gun + free lance + feed the hot hand

    81 vote(s)
    69.8%
  2. Dwight inside out with 4 shooters on the perimeter and occasional pick n roll

    35 vote(s)
    30.2%
  1. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,466
    Likes Received:
    152
    Option 1, dribble penetration and free throw.
    Option 2, inside game and free throw.

    I'm guessing free throws will be the playbook.
     
  2. NotApollo33

    NotApollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    35
    Tell me a system then that worked.

    U can't say San Antonio cos Dwight's not Tim Duncan. Who passes very well. Shoots the mid range. And is unselfish and is coached by Pop.

    Triangle offense could work but you need Phil. Personally wise n skill. McHale won't cut it.
     
  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,201
    Likes Received:
    20,241
    Asik can pass actually. He might not have Pau-like passing ability, but he's not bad at all.

    Chuck Hayes wasn't able to shoot the ball either, but made himself very affective as the big coming out to the high post with the Rockets.

    I do think Asik is going to need to work on SOMETHING to make the offense come out and guard him somewhat.... just not sure what that is right now.... He probably will need to work on an 18 footer.
     
  4. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,312
    Likes Received:
    13,834
    I think that's the big danger chasing Howard. He thinks he should be a first option, offensively. But, he isn't an uber-talented offensive player. I do think we should run some low-post game through him, but ultimately Harden is our best offensive weapon and it'd be foolish to make him a second option to feed the post. Howard would do himself and his teams a world of good if he would embrace a Mutumbo-type identity -- defensive stalwart who will score enough to keep opposing defenses honest.
     
  5. NotApollo33

    NotApollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    35
    Apparently he's got a good mid range. But he just needs the confidence. I dunno maybe. But either way the paints gonna get clogged n our games gonna slow down.
     
  6. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    13,558
    Likes Received:
    5,506
    Cause Tim Duncan was NEVER a bad free throw shooter. :rolleyes:

    Point is you have to have balance, not team runs just one style without trying to throw in P&R, ISO, low block post ups, and high/low screens.

    This thread is pointless cause we're really just going to run the offense that best fits our players. Last I heard we weren't being coached by Mike D'Antoni.
     
  7. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    11,685
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    The issue was mixing a high pick and roll game with a post game, Duncan's ability to play power forward from 18 feet doesn't have anything to do with it, and the character assassination was just well yeah, irrelevant crap.

    Van Gundy used to post Dwight up by using his athleticism to gain position first from the high pick and roll and switch it into a post-up, so really your claim you can't blend the offense holds no water.

    It also should be obvious that Morey never says players are expendable until they're gone, but the thoughts of Asik + Dwight is just ridiculous.
     
  8. NotApollo33

    NotApollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    35
    Post ups aren't that easy. You need decoys, set ups,screens and then swing the ball around to your post up player.

    You need time to set up a post up. Look at memphis spurs series. Reason why memphis lost. All their post ups were too predictable. It's not a case of oh we got 10 seconds left lets post up. No if u got 10 seconds left all you got time for is a quick pick n roll or isolation.
     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    24,201
    Likes Received:
    20,241
    With them on the court together.... which is something I think is overblown.

    The Rockets are going to say right now that they can "envision" the two of them playing together, but anyone who knows basketball knows thats easier "envisioned" than actually put into practice.

    There are reasons for the Houston front office saying this right now, and alot of them have more to do with Asik than the pursuit of Howard.

    If Morey comes out and says "We would move Asik to the bench" what kind of message does that send Asik when they DONT make the signing? That he's expendible?... That they dont value him that much?

    The whole "We can Envision" Dwight and Asik frontcourt pairing is pure PR right now. Of course they might "TRY" to make it work with some experimentation in training camp, but lets be honest... Most likely Asik comes off the bench, and ultimately gets traded in due time.
     
  10. NotApollo33

    NotApollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    35
    Are you joking?

    Dwight Howard can't shoot an 18 footer = character assassination? I can't shoot an 18 footer either does that make me a shmuck?

    You could post Dwight up because you had no other offensive players in your system. What you think Harden would stand on the perimeter waiting for Dwight to pass?

    Dwight's 28. He's averaged 17 points this year. He's not that athletic any more. Besides what are you talking about with the high pick n roll? Who doesn't do that? Is that your solution? What's Parsons doing? What's Asik doing? Lin n Harden?
     
  11. rocketblood713

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    57
    yea i read somewhere Dwight doesn't like the pick and roll a lot so if it comes down to that then we gonna have another upset Dwight on out hands
     
  12. NotApollo33

    NotApollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    35
    No of course. Dwight should buy in n let Harden be the main option. He ca have his post ups but its gotta be Harden

    I just don't think he will buy in. I think he's gonna come n then slowly try to take over.
     
  13. Fair Dinkum

    Fair Dinkum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    70
    D'Antoni's style is unique in that he doesn't like post ups AT ALL.

    Asik and Dwight are only going to play 6min together at the start of each half unless its against a team like Memphis.

    It a bit disingenuous to say Dwight has no post up game. The reel of his post up points would be extremely long and he does command a double team. What do you think he was doing in Orlando?

    His points for the last six seasons are:

    20.7
    20.6
    18.3
    22.9
    20.6
    17.1 (last season with an injured back)

    If McHale and the Dream worked with him to develop his post game, he could easily average 24pts. That's near league leading offensive production.

    Most championship teams have won by dominating the paint (there are exceptions, teams with extraordinarily good shooters). This is a general rule. The more we control the paint by scoring inside on offense and defending on defense, the better chances of success. Having great shooters just enhances that chance for success, but controlling the paint is crucial.

    If we can fast break to capitalise on our defense as well as execute half court high PnRs and Post ups, we would be a pretty scary team as we wouldn't be one dimensional but rather multidimensional.
     
  14. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    108,241
    Likes Received:
    158,333
    Read into what you will - old Morey interviews

    (Low post option, something you have to add?) I'd like to have it. I don't deal with have to haves. Basketball is too complex to deal with have to haves. I don't think that's a have to have. There been teams in the past who have won at a high level without a low post option. ... In an ideal world, you have a low post option and you generally in today's NBA, you want it at the five, frankly. Omer is improving as a low post option. I don't see him as ever being a strong one, maybe as a guy off the bench could be a low post option. If you have a low post option at the four, especially if we got Jeremy and James as two attack guards, your spacing gets hard with a 4 and a 5 on the block. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=7519994#post7519994

    (McHale, if you guys were to acquire a big man, would McHale want to change the offense to a half court offense or do you want to keep the uptempo style and will your offseason moves move toward keeping up with that uptempo style?) We're trying...you always want to mold your offense and defense to your personnel. If we got a dominant low post presence, we would change things up to try and implement that. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=7717148#post7717148
     
  15. NotApollo33

    NotApollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,366
    Likes Received:
    35
    But again he's thinking he's gonna be coming to Houston to be THE man. Not helping anchor the half court.

    But like u said, I would be happy for him to play that role n average 24 pts a game except.

    You don't heal from a bad back.

    N he's 29 next year. If u haven't learnt a post up game by then. U will probably not. But I'm happy if he does. But to me. It's Harden n Lin pick n roll > post ups. N I don't know if he will like that.
     
  16. Aydge

    Aydge Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    59
    Our offense is free flowing, if a big feels he has a mismatch he can post up. We saw Greg Smith do it. We saw DMo sprint down court and pin his man for some easy, at-rim post up opportunities. Even Asik was given a chance for some misadventures posting up.

    Sometimes the bigger mismatch will come out of attacking a poor post defender with Dwight and sometimes the bigger mismatch will come out of Harden/Lin & Howard PNR's.
     
  17. Fair Dinkum

    Fair Dinkum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    70
    Well, Dwight certainly looked and said he was much better (his injured back) by the end of the season. He actually recovered but said he was way out of shape for most of the season. He has a whole off-season to work on his conditioning and you know how Dwight likes to work out. Should be in beast condition by the time the season starts.

    He's 27 now and will be 28 next year. Still young enough to learn, especially when he's focussed and has McHale and the Dream with him everyday. In fact, Houston should hire Dream as Howard's personal trainer, kinda like a big brother to get his head and skills right.
     
  18. rocketblood713

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    57
  19. haydenfisher342

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,449
    Likes Received:
    100
    Rockets will certainly run Horns. It should free up open threes, p & r, miss matches. I think Mchale will continue to run a free flowing, read and react offense, but Horns will be implemented into the offense more often then it has
     
  20. TJ VS TR

    TJ VS TR Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,399
    Likes Received:
    37
    Isn't that what Kobe called Dwight to tell him to do? Na, he won't be happy unless he's scoring 20 per game.

    IMO PnR and posting can definitely co-exist. All it takes is a coach or PG calling plays and that's it. I'm sure Lin is mentally capable of doing that if given the responsibility. Besides Duncan, that has worked for many teams, such as Karl Malone. He likes PnR AND posting up, not bad at either one. KG prefers the pick and pop but it's not that different, he posts up also. The coach has to be capable to institute that of course. We'll see.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now