Dwight Howard is the best center in the NBA, live with it.

Howard came to the league at a younger age... probably a head start compared to Kemp

 

Kemps numbers are better if you compare best year vs best year of the players.

I guess you don;t really understand basketball much but when you have a bunch of good players on your team your stats go down.

 

they both entered at 19. I compared their best years so that should not really matter.

 

Did I just read that Olajuwon owned Robinson, but Robinson won the MVP, therefore head to head is the "preferred method"?

I have to have missed something there, because wouldnt that imply that head to head WASNT the preferred method, if the guy won the MVP despite being "owned"?

I also love all the "If if if" stuff provided in the laughable Kemp vs Howard debate. Its always a sure sign of a homer when they allow for selective examples.

Here's one:

You cant count Olajuwon's titles, because the only reason he won was because a guy named Jordan took two years off. Otherwise, Robinson has titles, Hakeem has none.

I also heard Yao's playoff numbers of the future will tell....so what: you're going to judge Yao by 4-7 games a year?

I wanted to throw in some head to head numbers as well:

Yao vs Kaman

Yao: 16 pts, 9 reb, 2 ast, 0 stl, 5 blk, 4 TO

Kaman: 23 pts, 11 reb, 3 ast, 2 stl, 2 blk, 2 TO

With the exception of having 5-2 more blocks, Kaman beats him in all major categories. So to sum up:

KAMAN PWN3D YAO LIKE A STEP-CHILD...YEEEEHAAAWWW WOOO HOOO



Yao vs Bynum

Yao: 12 pts, 8 reb, 0 ast, 1 stl, 2 blk, 5 TO

Bynum: 13 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 3 blk, 1 TO

So with the exception of ONE rebound, Bynum beat Yao in all major statistical categories.

Bynum>Yao, blah blah etc

My favorite.....

Kendrick Perkins vs Yao:

Yao: 8 pts, 7 reb, 0 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk, 2 TO

Perkins: 15 pts, 7 reb, 0 ast, 0 stl, 4 blk, 3 TO

Perkins almost DOUBLES Yao in points, and has QUADRUPLE the blocks!!!

Perkins>Yao!!!!111111

There's another Yao vs Howard stat:

341-253

You can talk head to head, blah blah whatever all you want, which is pointless.

However......since Howard came into the league, there are 88 games in which Dwight Howard has put up SOME SORT of stat line (and odds are a pretty decent one, based on his averages), while Yao's line was:

0-0 with 0 and 0

EIGHTY EIGHT games guys. But you're telling me if there was a draft today, you take Yao over Howard.

Sorry, we just flat out disagree.

 

Wow you really just showed your NBA ignorance.

 

Wait...how so? I'm just using selective excuses, same as anyone else in this thread....

If the Bulls won 3 in a row, then Jordan left for 2 years, then Houston won those two, then the Bulls won 3 more in a row when Jordan came back.....wouldnt that imply that the only time Houston could get it done was when they didnt have to face Jordan?

I guess its a coincidence.

 

I agree, you have to factor in the games missed, if you polled GMs in the NBA, I would bet most would take Howard.

Glad you are still around.



DD

 

Jordan was back during the Rockets 2nd championship, Orlando knocked them out.

DD

 

and please dont use the "jordan only took 1 1/2 years off" card. Full Jordan seasons, not a Jordan second half training camp.


Realize, before you sharpen your knives, that I'm not really pushing the idea that the Rox dont deserve their titles. I'm simply saying some of the debate tactics to shape the argument for Yao and against DH in this thread are laughable, just like the "Rox couldnt beat Jordan" argument.

 

damn, look at the timestamp. i was typing while you were typing. you beat me!

 

Jordan did score 50+ points in a game though that year....it is not like him having a year off and he came back as chopped liver.

The reason the Bulls started winning the next year after was that they got Rodman.....they needed a PF to help them clean up the glass....if they had Rodman the year that Jordan came back, I think we see a Houston vs Chigago championship round.

DD

 

Yeah that kind of "only if" thinking (which you adamantly attacked in your own threat) will not be taken kindly on this board. Would you say that you can't count the titles of Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, and Kevin Garnett, because Kobe and Shaq decided to be childish and ended up breaking their dynasty?

And Yao has consistently outplayed Dwight Howard so far, and Chris Kaman for that matter. Yao rarely has bad games against these second- and third-rate center, but Dwight Howard has always been beaten by Yao in head-to-head matches, that's the difference.

To be fair, Howard's game against Yao was a rare subpar game for him, but many of his subpar games happen to be against Yao!

While Howard has a clear production advantage over Yao so far, the jury is still out on the larger discussion.

 

Except that in 95 Jordan WAS in the league, lost to the Magic and in contrary to everything people say about him struggling that season he was not:

He averaged 31 PPG with a .484 FG% in the playoffs. I remember watching him that series and he dominated that series just like any other.

Those stats you posted with Yao vs Perkins, etc. are from early in the season when Yao clearly looked like he was coming back form a surgery. It's not really fair to use those stats. I do believe that in a 7 game series, teams would rather have Yao Ming as a center than Dwight. Now you are correct when you say if there was a draft today, most teams would select Howard because of his upside and ability to play 82 games.

 

Unlike other positions a matchup between centers is most of the time one on one. Everyone isolates and lets them work the post. Last night they were sending another guy over to help out Howard on Yao. Howard had very little success on Yao.

We are not comparing pitchers or QB's who never share the field, these guys go against each other each play.

 

I meant post

 

Speculation....

One could also argue that Jordan came back when the Bulls were fighting for a playoff spot, and expended too much energy to get to the postseason, thus having a tougher set of matchups.

Jordan had the one game with 55 against the Knicks, lets not get carried away. However, he averaged over 30 in the Magic playoff series, but you can't use that season...no training camp, out of shape, hadnt played NBA ball in over a year.

Yes, Rodman helped immensely, but so did MJ having a full season. They managed to win 3 before him, I think its safe to say they wouldve figured it out the other 3 times.

Houston had 6 chances to face MJ in the finals, they didnt come through on one. Even if you throw in his comeback year, its still 6-1.

I'm pretty sure most would agree that MJ's retirement had a bit to do with Houston's 2 rings. I'm also pretty sure its the same crowd that think Dwight>Yao.

 

And we can end this debate right now:

If the statement is "Yao is a better player than Dwight when they matchup against each other so far in their careers"........sign me up in the "I agree" column.

But judging by what I read in this thread coming in, that's not the debate.

 

I think people are failing to see the difference between better center and better player.

Yao is a true center he is best when it is another big guy taking him one on one.

Howard is better against the NBA teams without a true elite center. Most teams do not have one so Howard is a better player.

Also even Suns fans admitted it was bad for them when playing Yao to get Shaq, Marion always did a good job against Yao because the suns could easily double him. With Shaq it is one on one and Yao is just better.

 

Wait, you mean "MJ gave the Rox their two titles" is not a welcome statement on a Rox board???

Of course that's a stupid line of argument, that was my point. I am merely saying that the same debate strategy was being used pro-Yao, which is equally goofy.

 

How do you know he was out of shape? His shooting and rebounding was fine and his minutes were right there also.

If you look at our record against them during that era and Jordans averages against Vernon Maxwell I think you will no longer think that.