Dwight Howard is the best center in the NBA, live with it.

No, I wouldn't say he's a poor man's Shawn Kemp. He definitely isn't as skilled as Yao, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't peak until he is 24 barring any major injuries.

He should still be in his prime till he is 28 or 29. The guy is just a freak of nature. People his size aren't supposed to jump that high. Just like people Yao's size aren't supposed to do the things he does.

I think in a couple years Howard will most likely pass up Yao mainly because of their 6 year age gap (Yao will be 30, Howard will be 24) but yeah Yao's game is much more suited for longevity than Howard. I also believe Howard's ceiling is much higher but I'm not sure how much Howard will improve his game.

 

Shawn Kemp had a nice jump shot. He scores from everywhere, not just from put backs and dunks. Watch some old Shawn Kemp videos, Dwight Howard can't carry his jockstrap.

DH12's game is the same. He's not going to improve. This is the best he can be, that's it. He'll decline because he won't jump as high when he gets older.

 

Wow, looks like you have no clue about Rockets history, esp Dream vs David Robinson matchup?
"carmichael dave"="CometsWin"=idiot

 

They're probably the same person. And Mr. Pink.

 

I love people saying head to head does not matter.


OK so two centers WHO GUARD EACH OTHER play, one dominates the other one but that doesn't matter when comparing who is better?

 

Dwight did score some post moves here and there. (Like that baseline he did on Yao) If he can improve that part, he'll by scarier than he is now.

Of course, with Yao, I'm happy with what we get. A guy that can score or pass it for an assist or a hockey assist. What can he improve on? I don't know, maybe stamina?

Either way, to say one is better than the other is just useless. Different teams need different type of players, but any other team would want both Howard and Yao.

For example...

Denver Nuggets. They lost Camby, you'd think right there, Dwight would be very great for them. Obviously it is true, but then... they could use Yao who also affects players' shots.

Chicago Bulls: They have no scoring option down low, and so you'd want Yao. But if they had Dwight, they'd also get a whole lot of more 2nd chances off of offensive rebounds. Especially how all the guards have the tendency to shoot.

 

the thing to remember also is Yao is not healthy. The last time he was really 100% was the months before he broke his leg. He took that summer off before the season and he was an absolute monster. If not for the freak leg break he would have had his MVP season.

 

Dwight Howard is good.....very good. But if we are talking about him as being the best center in the league, that by itself shows just exactly how far the position has fallen.

Imagine if Howard played in the 80's. He would likely find it hard just to make an all star game much less entertain musings of being the best center in the league.

Hakeem Olajuwan
Kareem Abdul Jabar
Moses Malone
Robert Parish
Bill Walton
Brad Daugherty
Ralph Sampson
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Artis Gilmore
Bill Lambier
Jack Sikma

Clearly I think Howard merits conversation as far as belonging somewhere with in this group but certainly not very close to the top centers. I would say that both Howard and Yao would rank somewhere in the bottom half of this group...real close to the bottom.

 

Let's see now. Texas beat Oklahoma by 10 and Texas Tech beat Texas by 6.

News flash: TEXAS TECH MAULS SOONERS BY 16

Head to head is so dumb!

 

I would listen to arguments that Howard is a better player than Yao, but not a better CENTER.

Yao is a better CENTER, and just because other teams having no center works in favor more for Howard than Yao matters not.

 

In addition to the Magic reaching the Finals, this assumes (a) Yao would be healthy enough to reach the Finals, (b) the Rockets are good enough to get to the Finals. Yes, in your unlikely hypothetical scenario where the Finals matchup is Rockets vs. Magic with Yao fully healthy, then Yao could have the advantage.

But, in reality, the chances of that happening are slim. You don't determine who the best players are by fringe scenarios. If you could rewind to training camp and swap Dwight Howard for Yao Ming, would that improve or hurt our chances of winning a championship? That's the relevant question. And how Yao plays individually against Howard has little bearing on it.

 

Forget the "going forward" argument. I also agree that head-to-head doesn't matter much. But consider that Yao's mobility has been slowly improving from game to game. I'm encouraged. I still think it's too early to say Howard has definitely passed Yao. Like Yao, Howard has laid a few eggs this season and he doesn't look any better than last season.

 

Not as simple as this.

While I can agree that head-to-head is not the only criteria, I do think it is a big one in determining who is better or best. My reasons below.

1) When claiming player A is best at his position in the NBA, I do think that he should rise above the competition, especially when going against the better players. The fact that Yao has dominated Dwight (offensively and defensively) in almost every game they have played certainly puts a huge dent in Dwight's armor. You cant be the best, if you keep getting beat consistently by the guy who you are claiming to be the second best.

2) Basketball is a team game but since it's only 5 at a time on the court, individual performances have a huge effect on the overall team performance. The fact that Yao initiates a large percentage of Rockets offense, and Dwight has a hard time slowing him down, means that Rockets offense gets a boost from the center match up. Conversely, the fact that Dwight cannot dominate the match up on the other end means that he becomes the receiver instead of the facilitator for the Magic.

Most people have already alluded to the Olajuwon dominance over Robinson and how that effected the series outcome. Hakeem consistently won head to head matchups against other centers and thus the best center title. Do you think people would be comfortable with him holding to that title if he lost head to head with some of the other big name centers of his era?

Another example...

Clyde was considered the Jordan of the West until they met in the finals head to head. That was the end of that argument.

Head to head is very important in basketball, simply because it is a very good sign that the winner of the match up will open things up for his teammates.

3) Head to head becomes especially important in playoffs. On route to the title, there will be only 4 opponents, making the other 20+ irrelevant. The fact that you beat up the lesser competition through out the season and padded your stats, does not help in the playoffs. If anything, playoffs exposes the deficiency. David Robinson had perfected this art form.

Read David Robinson: The story of my IBM life.

You are right that Dwight has age on his side. But since we are looking at present, we cant base it in on age and potential. In couple of years, Dwight might clearly be better to the point that no one would even think about picking Yao over him in playoffs. Right now though, it is not that clear cut.

A better guage will be playoff games per year especially when it comes to Yao. If Yao can be a significant contributor in playoffs while he reduces the load in regular season, he will be right there. Shaq was very good at pacing himself.


Both players have major dents in their game. Yao can be dominating against the traditional centers and teams that play him from behind, but he can flat out disappear against teams that front him. Dwight still hasn't developed consistent post moves to initiate offense for his team and therefore his team has to rely heavily on Hedo while Dwight becomes the receiver. This was exposed in last year's playoffs.

Bottom line....

To me, both players are still very situational and neither is dominant enough where I would be comfortable picking one over another for any given opponent. (If teams decide to play Yao from behind, I would pick Yao because he adds so much to offense. If offense need not be initiated from center spot to win the matchup, I would pick Dwight)

However, If it came down to Rockets vs Magic in playoffs, I would pick Yao 100% of the time.

 

What about my question above.

If you could rewind to training camp and choose between Yao and Dwight Howard on the roster (let's assume same salary, teammates) -- who do you think would give us the better chance of winning a championship?

 

As I said, frankly neither is good enough to the point where I would feel they would dominate the competetion and lead the team to championship

I do feel that Dwight helps more in regular season. However I think Yao's game is more suited for playoffs where games become slower and he can initiate low post offense. If Dwight had consistent low post moves and I knew he could initiate offense for his teammates in playoffs, I would clearly pick Dwight. But not right now.

Since it's a safe bet that Rockets could get to playoffs with either Dwight or Yao on the roster, I would pick Yao simply because of his post offense. With Dwight, Rockets would be even more dependent on McGrady to initiate offense and this is something we have been trying to get away from.

 

Does that assessment change when you factor in potential injuries?

 

Oh, definitely. Yao is definitely a huge risk when you add injuries to the equation and that is the main reason why I would pick Dwight over Yao. But that does not necessarily answer the "Who is better" question, what most were arguing about.

Since you asked the original question with championship in mind, I dont think this team would be good enough in playoffs with Dwight at the center simply because of the pressure that would fall on another injury prone guy in Tmac.

Also, to me at least, the "who is better" argument gets tainted based on injuries.

It then becomes a question of who is more reliable, not necessarily who is better.

 

I didn't see the whole game last night -- did Yao guard Howard or did we put the PFs on him ?

 

Yao guarded him when they were both on the court. Otherwise, it was Chuck Hayes.

 

This question of "Who's better?" is sort of meaningless to begin with. I like to think of it in the way I framed it above -- holding everything else even, which player would give you better chance of winning it all. There's still a lot of room for differing opinion, but at least it gets us looking at the relevant details. Part of that, in my view, has to be durability. A player can be awesome for half a season, but if he's missing significant time that hurts his team's standings and playoff seeding. And he may be injured or not available at all when the playoffs roll around. I think that has to be part of the discussion. Otherwise, we could draw the following strange conclusion, "I think Yao is better, but Dwight Howard is the player I'd rather have."