Dwight was reluctant to play exclusively PnR. There's a difference. Wasn't that due to injuries? Didn't he have a leg fracture and hamstring issues? And how good were those Charlotte teams? In terms of raw numbers, Diaw didn't regress, but in terms of impact, he got fat and put up empty stats on a losing team. Was he? I've been arguing that Nash creates easier looks for his teammates. If that holds true, then logically, Bell should shoot a higher percentage when he's playing alongside Nash. Here are Bell's 3pt% on a year by year basis for the years he averaged >= 2 attempts per game. 2004: 37.3% (Utah) 2005: 40.3% (Utah) 2006: 44.2% (Pho) 2007: 41.3% (Pho) 2008: 40.1% (Pho) 2009: 46.8% (Pho) 2009: 39.5% (Cha) 2011: 35.2% (Utah) 2012: 39.1% (Utah) In Ariza's last year in Washington (the year before he rejoined Houston), he was a 40% 3pt shooter. So yes, Bell is a better shooter, but without Nash, he hasn't proven himself to be far superior to Ariza. Given Ariza's defensive versatility, Ariza's the better overall player. While all that is true, he left Phoenix when he was 28 years old and never again came close to reaching that level of production. Bell, Diaw, and Barbosa all had the best years of their careers playing alongside Nash. Do you really think that's a coincidence?
Give it up. 2005 season. 2006 season. Nash had the better supporting cast. You lose. Harden is great.
I expect you to pick seasons to help your argument. So which is it..... 2005 or 2006? Why can't you just accept that Nash had a better supporting cast?
What difference? He was reluctant to play exclusively PnR, even though Harden is one of the best PnR players in the league, and Dwight is one of the better PnR finishers.Dwight had one of the most post touches in the league, but converted on a pitiful 0.82 points per possession. On the other hand, he had a very solid 1.1 ppp on PnRs, but at a frequency of only 8%. Both Capela and D-Mo had higher PnR frequency than Dwight. Nash's injury issues came in later in the picture. He publicly spoke against Dwight for refusing to play PnR. When you have good PnR players, but don't utilize it, is it a surprise when they do not play as well? Nash's inability to play to his strengths contributed to his drop off before the injuries did, and let's not forget the pitiful win rate the Lakers had during that period. What does that even have to do with your original point? You argued that Diaw regressed after Nash, and I showed you that was not the case. Charlotte was a pitiful team before he joined and is still a pitiful team after he joined, it has nothing to do with "empty" numbers since Diaw did not drop off like you implied he did. Your stats showed Raja Bell was a reliable 3 point shooter before Nash, and an even better one with him. If you want to attribute Bell's good 3 point shooting to Nash, then you should also attribute Beverley's good 3 point shooting to Harden. Ariza had one fantastic shooting season where he shot out of his mind but he has not been able to replicate that in Houston, it doesn't mean Harden isn't setting him up with open looks, it just means he wasn't converting like he used to. You conveniently left out the injury issues that I specifically mentioned he suffered shortly before he left Phoenix, since he ran into a string of health problems after that. There is a reason why in his last season with Phoenix (playing with Nash of course), he had a noticeable drop off in his numbers and efficiency. Unless of course, you think think he shot poorly from 3 point distance because of Nash. I am not saying that Nash was terrible and he was playing on a great team. However, to downplay how good his supporting cast was at performing their roles would be dishonest. Nash isn't some unique player that has his breakout season at age 30, Nash is simply a player that can dominate the court when placed in an environment that tailors around his strength. He isn't disimilar to Rondo in that regards. If anything, one could make a case for Harden's versatility, because he has consistently performed well regardless of who he had to play with. Whether that's playing as a 6th man role behind 2 ball dominant player, or playing with a starting center of Joey Dorsey/Tarick Black and a PG of Jason Terry for half of the season, or having to force feed an inefficient post player who refuses to PnR.
Spot the **** on my man.... I put you on the list of dudes in the GARM that possess bball IQ... Short list sadly.
Overused casual talking point.... The greatest players that WIN have great OR quality teammates. They put them in positions to succeed, but they must possess the ability or skillset to take advantage of them... You know.... Be good.
Dwight gets hacked intentionally quite a bit and he TURNS IT OVER in the post like crazy.... That also takes away from his FGA
Don't tell me there are people here really trying to say Nash's support cast wasn't better than Harden's? ROFL. Bell arguably not a better shooter than Ariza? ROFL. Yes Ariza shot 40% from three one year when playing next to Wall, who is an elite playmaker. Harden is a decent playmaker who still got Ariza his fair share of open looks. He shot pretty well from three last year but his overall efficiency is poor. What was that I heard? Clank, clank. CLANK.
so it's harden's fault Dwight didn't want to play his strengths and forcing his weakness? didn't harden drive and pass to his teammates for wide open three's? or it his fault they missed or passed up on taking the shot?
This roster has only added EG with the creator facilitator problem. Prigs as well but probably won't get burn. Another PG? Cole? GPII?
Everyone who watched the season, objectively, knew how that series was going to end. Shouldve kept their pick. Only fools and homers thought that playing against the record setting Warriors would land us top FA. Nobody talks about the Blazers only winning one game because they actually made it to the 2nd round after having to replace 4 starters and still made a 5 seed, while the Rockets brought back their WCF team. I cant wait to see the poll of what we think the teams record will be. I hope its public.
The decline in his defense was overshadowed by the overall decline of the majority of his teammates in almost every aspect.
not really concerned with any of that because thats not what i was addressing. your claim that the west was way weaker back then is completely false
Surely you don't need to be told the difference between a player who does PnR's as part of his offensive repertoire and a player who does exclusively PnR's. Before he signed with us, we knew he didn't want to play exclusively PnR. We knew that and promised him a larger offensive role. How did you expect him to react when the Rockets reneged on their word? There were several reasons for Nash's decline. Age, injury, chemistry, and the fact that he had to coexist with other ball-dominant players. Not really. You pointed out that Diaw had similar stats in Charlotte. I pointed out that Charlotte was a terrible team and that they were empty stats. Players are expected to put up better stats on inferior teams. I could easily argue that Diaw's failure to do so was a form of regression. Nope. We don't have a benchmark for Beverley since he's played his entire career with Harden. Who cares what his 3pt percentage was? He didn't shoot many. In the season you're referring to, he averaged 0.5 attempts per game. Diaw/Bell/Barbosa had their best years playing alongside Nash. When Diaw left, he was 26 years old. When Barbosa left, he was 28 years old. Raja Bell joined Phoenix when he was 29 and left when he was 32. Despite their youth, all of their careers began a downward trajectory when they left Phoenix. What's your argument? That it's all a coincidence? Or that Diaw/Barbosa had an early prime while Bell had a late prime? Nash is actually very unique. It's not often the league sees a gifted facilitator who is also a great shooter. Before Steph Curry came along, Nash was in the discussion as the GOAT shooter. He almost finished 50/40/90 for his career.
