I know... which is why I'm pointing out it isn't just about winning. Harden had more points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks than Lillard. He had a higher (better) offensive rating and lower (better) defensive rating. He had a higher PER and TS%. He had a higher win share... meaningfully.... and almost double the VORP (value over replacement player). The analysis is similar for Lowry, where Harden is generally statistically better across the board, in some cases meaningfully, with the exception of turnover. Again, my point is that it isn't just about winning, or just about stats, or even just about who the better performing player was. It's about perception and media narrative as much as anything.
Lowry ran the offense much better (involving teammates, protecting the ball) and he plays good defense. He had a fantastic year imo. #7 in real plus minus
No doubt. Lowry had a great year. But he's not a better offensive player than Harden, and as the playoffs showed he got meaningfully worse against that better competition. He's a realyl good player currently at his peak... whom last year, next year, the year before last, the year after next, etc. I would not take over Harden as far as building a winning team.
No, it's clearly not. It's easy to say that Harden had more pts/rbs/ast/stl/blocks than Lillard. But frankly, you need to consider how much better his stats were (+3.9 ppg, +2.1 rpg, +0.7 apg, +0.8 spg, +0.5 bpg, +1.4 to/pg). The Rockets were projected to be title contenders and ended up the 8th seed. The Blazers were projected to be one of the worst teams in the league and ended up the 5th seed. Do you think Harden's superior stats compensate for the Rockets under performance and the Blazers out performance?
Preseason projections vs actual end results only show how good or bad the people making the projections are at projecting, not how good or bad a player performed. Why do we care that everyone was wrong about where they thought the Blazers and Rockets would end up when deciding who played better between Harden and Dame? I'd say the biggest reason that projections were so out of whack was actually the performance of everyone on the Blazers and Rockets outside of Dame and Harden. Harden and Liallard did what they do, but Dames supporting cast played way better than anyone thought and Hardens played worse. And no I don't buy into it being all, most or even some of Hardens fault our guys sucked, I could buy into maybe a little but nothing more.
Yes I'm just talking last year. Lowry was better IMO, harden was better two years ago. Going forward harden should be better if he gets in shape. Harden also got meaningfully worse in the playoffs and against better competition
LOL, another laughable Mr. Clutch take on Harden. Did you even watch Kyle Lowry in the playoffs? He was bad, like historically bad, until his 10th game. The east was such a joke, you can afford to have 10 historically bad playoff games and still win.
It's also easier when you have shooters around you to play that kind of game. Nash also played with two all-star players. So tell me then Mr. Clutch. Do you think the Rockets would have been better off without Harden last season? You say he made the game harder so that says that the team would have been better off with out him.
Making teammates better is the same, lets not argue over definitions. You are saying great players somehow improve the talent of players around them. I disagree. I'll only go as far as they make the game easier. All those champions you mentioned played on teams with multiple all-stars. That's what Harden is missing right now more than anything.
You're missing the point. When his shooters were struggling, Nash would try to create easy transition opportunities for them. His superior passing and up-tempo offense allowed for this. When our shooters are struggling with their 3 pointers, Harden creates more 3 point opportunities for them. Do you see the difference?
What about CJ? He played out of his mind (taking a major offensive load off Lillard) this year and, as a result, got a $106 million contract. Harden had absolutely nobody these last two seasons who contributed like that.
Yup. Once again...Harden is held to Curry standards with no Curry supporting cast. It's simply unrealistic.
can you list nash's coaching staff and supporting staff and compare side by side with harden's (pit in each one's 3pt% while you're at it) did harden happen to have an elite and willing PnR player? did harden happen to have an elite and willing solid pick setter? did harden happen to have an elite offensive coach?
People here don't admit how bad the coaching staff and supporting cast the rockets have. If each team's best players sat least season but kept the coaching staff and remaining roster intact, Rockets will be bottom 3 at best. Only better record than Lakers and Sixers. If you disagree list down other teams that rockets can have a better record.
Nope, google it yourself. But what I CAN tell you is that Nash's coaches played the same number of minutes as Harden's coaches. Yep. Dwight Howard. However, Dwight also wanted post touches. Harden refused. The rest is history. Why does that matter? In Phoenix, Nash didn't play in D'Antoni's system. Nash WAS the system.
Ummmm I'm not trying to take anything away from Nash but the Nash your thinking of was not that guy until he played under Mike Dantoni and the spread pick and roll. There's a reason why the Mavs let him walk, if he was playing at that level and was the system as you say Marl Cuban would have paid the guy. Nash is a HOF player no doubt but even he credits his peak Years in Phoenix to MDA.
Did you even read my post? As usual your "analysis" just involves copy and pasting BREF. I didn't say Lowry had a good playoffs. Overall he ended with a pretty poor playoffs, mainly due to shooting. Harden also had a poor playoffs. which he ended with a nap while the game was still going. Harden ended with a 107 ORTG and .106 win shares. Extremely poor for a star player. Turnovers (5.2 per game), 3 pt shooting (31%) and of course defense were all a problem. This is why it isn't "narrative" why Harden was left off the All NBA team.
