Fat chance. Amare already has better wing players. Duncan is almost as unappreciated as Hakeem was in the eyes of the general nba fan. None of this happens without Duncan.
last week on sportscenter they had the top 10 under appreciated players in all of sports, duncan was #1. its so easy to say what he does can be replace because he doesnt do it with the flair of KG, the excitement of Amare but at the end of the day, he has 2 rings going on a third and they have zero. i would take a team of players like duncan anyday of the week and twice on sundays
This was very much true in 99, and even more true 02, and also true earlier in the playoffs, but this series (Detroit) Manu and the wing players are the difference. I don't think I was clear before, I didn't mean if you switch Amare and TD the Spurs beat the Suns, that series had a very different dynamic. But I do believe you switch Amare (or KG or perhaps Sheed) with Duncan in this finals and the Spurs are still up 2-0 against the Pistons. The penetration (Manu) and wing defense are taking the Pistons more out of their game than anything. Duncan is a major factor, but not THE factor this finals.
The wing players are definately the difference between this year and last. Duncan can only do so much, such as drawing constant double teams, but the spurs have only won titles on those years when guards stepped up and hit shots. Jaren Jackson, Stephen Jackson, Kerr, Claxton, Elie, etc. Duncan is a rock, and when someone else steps up, they win. That is all that is happening this year. Manu, Tony, and Bowen get so many more good looks because of TD. I agree this series would be very interesting with an Amare/Manu pick and roll, but Sheed? Nah, he's just not enough of a post presence to free up room for the guards. He might drain some 3's, but I doubt any teams are too worried about Rasheed from deep.
Neither one of these teams has the killer instinct to win in a hostile environment right now. The Spurs were quicker to the loose balls in San Antonio... the exact opposite is the case in Detroit. The team with the home court has consistently had the defensive momentum and it's been impossible for the opposing offenses to overcome. I still don't think Detroit will win the series - I don't think this energy will carry over to San Antonio - but regardless, a lot of us have overrated the Spurs. The great teams can override the initial wave of energy away from home, and the Spurs lack the maturity and/or talent to do it. I'm as big of a Tim Duncan fan as you'll find, but this series shows that he's not up there with the Jordan's, Hakeem's and the top 5-10 players in the history of the game. Maybe he will later in his career, but the true greats of all-time have the poise to withstand runs like the ones the Pistons have had in the last two games. They have a knack for hitting big shots on the road at the most opportune of times to stall the momentum. Duncan doesn't have that killer instinct or ability - at least not right now. Rasheed is a good defender and he deserves credit, but Duncan's got to overcome that for his legacy to be what most expect it to be. These sub-33 percent shooting nights in NBA Finals games are just embarassing.
What is weird is both have been fine road teams in the playoffs. But if Det handles them again so easily in game 5 I think they will probably take game 6. They get tougher as series go on, and definetly have a killer instinct--including against many other outstanding teams the last 2 years--Heat this year, and Lakers, NJ and Indy last year. If SA can't find some bread and butter things that work soon (next game) I don't think home court will bail them out. At a minimum the Spurs have to play a competitive game 5 or the Pistons will have locked into what the need to take the series. I think TD was most dominant about 2 years ago and wasn't that far off his 2nd season in the league. I think that was the best Tim Duncan we will ever see. Great player, but yeah not Hakeem (or Shaq) level of domination. That should be obvious to all now. Here is no way he will be a better defensive player at 30, 31,etc, and it is not like his offensive game has room to improve via fundamentals, he is what he is, a great all around and fundamental player, but not a legendary player.
These past two games firmly indicate that Timmy is overrated. An excellent player, but not god like as the media and some fans believe.
Yes but Hakeem taught him the Dream Shake when he was in San Antonio for game 1. Duncan has been working on it and will bust out with it in Game 5 and drop 50 on both the Wallaces.
Like it's been mentioned here before, he doesn't have or give his teams that killer instinct necessary to win big games, he never has. You can't imagine him looking his teammates in the eyes in the huddle of a game that is slipping away from them and telling them "We will win this game!", you just can't, can you? When he's on he has a quite dominance to his game, no flash, no dunks, no flexing, no show boating, but when the going gets tough for him he does have a tendency to throat. His shots come up short, he gets the ball slapped away, he commits silly fouls and he beats himself up for all of that which doesn't help anything. Don't hold anything against though, he does what he does without any self promotions and without much talk from the media who has propped up Shaq as the best big man in the game (by a wide margin to some) when in reality Duncan has been the best for a long time. Look where he's at, look at what he's done for the PF spot. You can't name a player that has accomplished more than him from that position, which for some reason is tough to find ultimate team success from. The Spurs this season had a tough road through the Western Conference Playoffs, now he's in the Finals and he still has about as good of a chance to bring home his THIRD championship as the Pistons do of repeating. If he loses, oh well, the better team will always win. It's like last season's Lakers, everyone acted as if losing in the Finals was a horrible way to end the season, HELLO! They played in the FINALS, despite the injuries, Kobe's trial and the drama. Getting through the Western Conference now-a-days is a great accomplishment in it self.
The point is, a truly legendary player rarely, or never has two consecutive poor games in the NBA finals as Duncan had in the past two games. His performance on Tuesday was pathetic, and last night he was 5-17 23% from the floor and never made any impact on the game. Should I also mention that Amare just flat out dominated him on the offensive end in the Western conference finals? If not for Ginobili, the Spurs would have been done a while ago.
Sorry, Duncan's best years just don't stack up with Shaq. Shaq has put up multiple (close to) 30 PPG, 12RPG, 3+BPG type seasons and has three playoff MVPs. Even the Shaq of last year, not close to he player he once was, averaged 27PPG versus Detriot. Shaq and Hakeem are by far the best bigmen from the mid 80s on and a clear notch ahead of Duncan in terms of dominance. TD was probably better than Shaq for the 03 season, but more due to Shaq's health and motivation issues. No question is there peak for Shaq was better.
Yeah Duncan is struggling recently (bad ankles don't help), but saying you can substitute Amare or Sheed and the Spurs are just as good is going a bit far. Amare is an awesome offensive force but Duncan is able to dominate on both ends of the floor, which is the mark of a truly great player. And yes the Spurs are known to choke when the going gets tough, there's no doubt about that. The exact same thing happened last year when the Lakers reeled off four straight wins against them. You have to break their will, break their confidence, and make them second-guess themselves. It remains to be seen whether they can regain their form once this series gets back to San Antonio.
fa799, Without Nash Stoudamire doesn't play against the Spurs, no big deal, the West is brutal right now so you can't expect one player to do it alone or take anything away from a player because he had so and so. Duncan should bounce back, Ginobili and Horry should to, maybe even Antonio and Nazr join the party. Statistically they don't, but there's a reason why Duncan has more MVPs despite being the guy with much less hype and that reason is defense. Duncan hasn't missed an All NBA Defensive First Team after his rookie season, while Shaq hasn't made any. Shaq's teams on the regular give up more than 100 points a season, Duncan's hardly ever give up more than 90, plus Duncan's teams have won more. Hasn't won as much in the playoffs and that's the only legitimate beef against Duncan, but then again who knows how all of that would have played out if he had Kobe Bryant and Shaq had Tony Parker. EDIT: Shaq has had at least one All Star guard on his team every year of his career except his rookie season, while this is Duncan's first with an All Star guard. No big deal, Duncan is only three solid games away from matching Shaq in rings and quite possibly Finals MVPs, too bad those stats don't match up.
Duncan is definetly overrated. he is a good guy and everthing but he is boring to watch. i have said it before and ill say it again duncan is overrated. Amare did to to duncan what Olajuwon did to Robinson. only difference is that olajuwon won his series and stoudamire did not.
Exactly. People always bring up Nash when talking about Amare. Amare totally outplayed Duncan in the Western conference final, who is considered the best PF of all time. Not saying that Yao is a better player, but he was able to hold Amare in check for majority of the time, and even managed to outplay his in most of their meetings. Duncan is overated. He is a great player with great fundamentals. However, this does not prevent him from being overrated by the media by a wild margin. Cannot believe that a Charles or Malone at their prime lay out dead without fight back like Duncan did in the past two games, especially with Championships on the line.
Doesn't Duncan have 2 bum ankles right now? Hasn't he been hurt for several weeks now? Let's give the guy a break. He has 2 (?) MVPS's, 2 rings (possible a third), and is a virtual lock for the Hall Of Fame.
wUTeVA! WuTEvA! You can't compare the dominance of Olajuwon over Robinson to what Amare did to Duncan, all Amare did was outscore him, Hakeem should be in jail for what he did to Robinson. There is absolutely no comparison to be made. You guys act like Duncan didn't put a whooping on Amare on the offensive end as well. Duncan's line in the WCF's. 27.4 points on 52% shooting, 13.8 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 blocks per game. Amare's line in the WCF's. 37 points on 56% shooting, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1.5 blocks per game. Yeah, Amare had some nice dunks on him, but at the end of the day big guys WIN mostly because of their defense and rebounding, not because of dunks or offense. That's a proven fact that gets proven over and over and over again in the playoffs and will always be the same, it's like gravity or something. Had Stoudemire rebounded and played defense like he did in the last couple of minutes of game 4 and game 5 in games 1-3 the Suns would be in the Finals, now there's always next year for him. Duncan on the other hand, was a force even when he wasn't blocking shots, rebounding, or scoring, the Spurs outrebounded them guys big time and held them down in the fourth quarters when it counted the most. Go ahead and say Amare outplayed him if you want, he did at times, but not as bad as you guys make it out to be even in those few times. Duncan probably had his best 4th quarter preformances of his career in that series, scoring in double figures in pretty much every game, very unusual for him which leads me to believe that he and the Spurs will bounce back.
DUncan does most definitely not dominate defensively. He's a good defensive player, but this is not a Hakeem or Mutombo or David Robinson. Amare just owned him in the WCF. Duncan has never won a defensive player of the year and probably never will. He's great offensively. Defensively, he's good, but certainly not great.
I hope you're talking about Moses Malone, because Karl was a prime time chocker in his Finals appearances. Of the 12 games that he's had in the Finals, he probably had 3-4 "good" performances. Otherwise his production was down across the board. And Barkley? Please. How many Finals has he been to? I agree that Duncan isn't at Hakeem or Shaq level, but he's definitely better than the likes of Barkley and Malone.
