I think it is funny that college presidents are asking for a change. It is a drinking culture on their campuses that's the problem. I can understand they believe changing the drinking age will help them a bit by increasing visibility. But, reducing alcoholism, drunk-driving, and other alcohol-related problems is going to come from a cultural shift, not legislative reform. And, the campus culture is a large part of that change. Maybe if they can create an environment where students feel like they are coming to work and not to party, they wouldn't have this binge drinking problem. Or, perhaps if they'd quit this middling position between treating students like children (providing dorms and social clubs and services) and treating them like adults (lax enforcement of their own rules), they wouldn't have this problem. College institutions are a significant part of our drinking problem, and they want to point the finger at prohibition? This is one area colleges don't carry a lot of credibility with me.
I have to second that. The University of Chicago did not have much of a problem with binge drinking since those students tended to fail out altogether. Just make the college difficult enough and people will keep their drinking to a miminum. But most colleges seem to depend on raking in tuition from people who don't need to show up to class in order to pass.
arno mentioned that in holland they drive at 18. raising the age for getting a driver's license would take cars off the road (good for the environment) and keep our little rascals from driving drunk (good for public health). let's do it.
Do countries that allow people under the age of 21 access to alcohol have more liver-related diseases/problems than the United States? That might be a problem but as you and others have stated, how hard is it for them to get now. Raid the parents liquor cabinet, raid your friend's parent's liquor cabinet, go to the gas station, liquor store etc. and just ask somebody to buy what you want, go to your social connections (you're friend that has a sibling in college or that really cool uncle), etc. There are really endless possibilities already in place. How would that increase?
Drinking age in Canada is 19 or 18. I think the drunk driving fatality stats have mirrored those in the US -- overall decline with better education and stronger enforcement. Livers aren't any better developed -- kids are no more mature. I like 19 because it keeps it illegal for high school seniors -- but I find it hard to argue that it's OK to enlist, get married, vote, be tried as an adult but not to buy a drink. Up the penalties for minors in bars, supplying a minor with booze and drunk driving if those are the concerns. But there's no public health or safety issue to keep it at 21 IMO so it becomes a civil liberty matter. Despite their taste in music, I find 18-21 year olds today to be much more responsible and mature then they were 20 years ago. LET THEM DRINK.
Wow, really? I'm not sure I agree with that but then again 20 years ago I was 9 so I don't really have anything to base it on. My assumption was as time has passed that demographic has become less responsible and mature. I may be wrong but it just appears that way to me.
It depends on the country. I am most familiar with France where there's never been much enforment when it comes to drinking. Generally having a small amount of wine from time to time isn't too hard on a teenager. I know that binge drinking has increased in the last decade and so have related health problems. I am not sure what the age breakdown is but binge drinking is more a habbit picked up early so I am guessing that the health related issues (and drunk driving accidents, incidently) are increasing amoung people in their twenties rather than in the older population. The French really pride themselves on their moderation. At least the older generations do. I don't object to parents letting their teenager kids have a half glass of wine on a special occasion. I do object to kids binge drinking. My feeling about it is that it is going to depend on who you are drinking with. Kids will try to show each other up and don't necessarily recognize the early signs of alcohol poisoning. Most parents probably would not let their kid pass out from alcohol use right in front of them but a friend might think that wasn't such a big deal. Again, yes, kids can get alcohol as it is. But it is easier to get if you can ask someone within your own social circle. I could have a gin and tonic in a bar as a teenager but I didn't think I could get away with ordering a second one. I could ask a complete stranger to buy me a bottle of vodka but I would have to be rather choosy about who to ask. Most of my friends at the time were over 21 and it was a lot easier to just swing by their apartment. But I don't think that most teenagers spend as much time with older adults. A difference of just one or two years is much more common and that way you don't have to keep asking so-and-so's older sister. As for raiding the liquer cabinet, parents really should learn to mark their bottles the way many bars do. I might have been able to have a Kahlua and milk at home but I couldn't possibly get away with binge drinking. How would that increase?[/QUOTE] As I stated earlier, the relationships between older men and minor girls would increase because you are much more likely to have minors in bars if the age is lowered. Girls generally don't even need a fake ID. If they come in with a bunch of 18 year olds, most older men can't tell the difference between 16, 17 or 18. Even I can't these days (college kids are looking younger and younger every year).
to play devils advocate to the "if you're old enough to vote, fight and get married" argument, there is a little bit of a difference. If you join the military, you aren't necessarily putting others in harm (save the people you may fight). If you get married, you arent at risk harming someone else. Voting, same thing. Although i could see an argument that they could harm the country by being immature and now knowing enough to make an informed decision. a loose argument, granted. Bottom line, F those little bastards. I had to wait and so can they.
They would be going after the same age guys that are there. Its not like all of a sudden all the young kids are going to be hanging out with old people. There will be bars geared towards older people, and ones towards younger people. I would think it is more likely that as the law currently is, that teenage girls would have sex with guys over 21 that hook them up. That happens a lot. Girls are so easy when you have something they want.
If the law were truly about protecting the individual's health and only that, as some have suggested with the 21 year old liver idea, then smoking should be prohibited as well, seeing as it's always bad for your health, whereas just one drink (lame, I know ), can actually help your health. It's not a health issue at all, it's just politics and therefore is dumb. If you really want to stop underage drinking, make "novelty IDs" illegal, bust the people who try to use them (of course this means that stores and bars have to care), and bust the people who provide alcohol for minors. Heck, you could probably put a limit on how much alcohol one can buy in a shopping trip so you don't have that one guy who is buying 30 handles for his kegger while his parents are gone. Making these types of adjustments to the law would be so easy to do that if the government actually wanted to, it would do so immediately. IMO, they want to have it both ways, appeasing the old folks who don't want rowdy kids to drink while letting the kids have their booze anyway.
Perhaps, but I’m just trying to remember my mindset when I was 15. If the law says I’m 6 years from being able to drink, I’m a lot less likely to try and break it than I am if it says I’m only 3 years away. Of course, that's just me. I totally agree, but why does the drinking age need to be lowered in order for this to be effective? On this, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think 18 year olds are drinking just to 'rebel' and break the law. I think they're doing it to get DRUNK. Hell, that's why I did in when I was a freshman in college. I wasn't rebelling against anything, I just wanted to get tanked. Anyway, this thread is getting too heavy for the hangout, so I'm bowing out. But not before making a stupid joke: I agree, and that's why segways are the perfect solution. The preceding post was a political ad bought and paid for by the Fatty for Congress in 2010 campaign.
