The point is, whether Clyde is right or wrong, it doesn't matter. Yes, maybe Clyde and Scottie kept in better shape and went to bed early throughout thier careers, who cares? Many a fine player has been a night owel. Vernon Maxwell for instance played the best one on one defense in the NBA for a long time and was drunk every night afterwards. Secondly, maybe clyde tried harder than Chuck, but who cares when the things you're trying to do are silly? Yes Clyde tried, but he also put up the exact same, unefective, top of the key three pointers at the end of every game. Remember? You know the ones that would fly off the back of the rim? Charles played smart all the time (except for the occasional three). End of the game, Bread and Butter. Clyde is a slasher, yet he never slashed at crunch time. Neither Scottie or Clyde can claim to have played as smart as Charles. Also Clyde had more of a problem with Barkley off the court than on. Clyde was very intimiddated by Charles's mouth. I love the Glide, but he's not as nice as people say.
Clyde has a ring, Chuck does not. Besides, he made some of those 3pointers . I wouldn't use that as an arguement in Clyde Vs Barkley. I wonder how many games Chuck lost for his teams because of his persistent (and ineffective) 3point shots.
And Charles hasn't made stupid plays down the stretch of ballgames? How many times have we seen him stubbornly try to take Malone one-on-one in the final minutes of a Jazz game, only to come up way short. And who else can forget him standing feet away from John Stockton, watching the guard launch up the shot heard around the world.
cabbage, before injuries in 96 took hold, Karl couldn't hold a candle to Charles. He flat out vanished in his presence out of intimidation... It wasn't until Charles proved human (and admitted elbows hurt) that Karl ever outplayed Charles. that pick & shoot was off a bear hug that Malone had on Clyde, and you know it. Don't play the famous video angle for that purpose.
Regardless if Clyde was held or not, doesn't the big man roll over and show rather than stand there and do nothing? [This message has been edited by thacabbage (edited February 09, 2000).]
that's the question w/ the pick & roll right? let Malone go unfettered to the lane (i.e. w/ a 220lb.~ guard in his way) or expect the guard to ROTATE! to Stockton. That video doesn't show that Clyde tryed to rotate off of the pick (as if he wanted to stay under the basket w/ Malone) and that Charles was playing Malone until he recognized that the defense had dissolved (or was being held back)...
Cabbage, Haven and whoever else. First, If Hakeem had been the same man in 97 that he was in the playoffs of 96 it would have been a different story. Hakeem's decline played a great role in the inefectiveness of the Clyde, Dream, and Barkley days. Either way, it is unquestionable that Charles was very good in the fourth quarter throughout his career. It was always a safe bet. Yes he shot silly threes, but just because he was a maniac. He definately didn't see those as his first option. He more than made up for the thress over the course of his career. Give it to Charles in the Clutch and he was always AT LEAST 1 for 2 if not better when he went to his bread and butter. Meanwhile, Clyde, and let me just say that I am a Humongous Drexler fan, the simple fact is that when the game was on the line he did stupid things. After 96 he would contantly jack up threes in the Clutch and they would never go in. NEVER!!!! EVER!!! The best god damned slasher in the league wouldn't freaking take it to the hoop when it counted. I loved watching the Glide, but Barkley was a much smarter player, period. Hell, he's a smarter guy, did you watch that speech Clyde made?? Also all that crap Clyde said is just him regurgitating the most popular critiques of charles. Clyde didn't like the focus taken off of him, and he didn't like Charles's mouth.
I think that Clyde was defending Barkley's detractors more than anything else. Pippen was visciously ridiculed in his verbal sparring w/CB. Clyde was basically pronouncing this to be unfair. It sort of makes the entire Pippen problem a bit more sympathetic. If you were trying to create a legacy of your own (w/o MJ), perhaps it would be more than a bit vexing to play with someone w/o work ethic... when you have an enormous one. Pippen is a pathetic whiner... but perhaps he was unjustly attacked for his opinion about a man who various other respected sources have labeled lazy as well.
Fro- I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. It is a matter of personal pride and Clyde & Pip didn't like it that they were not only not the first option on offense (actually the 3rd behing CB & Dream) but that the press loved CB. Not only were they not getting their numbers, but they were not getting any love from the press. Both of these guys were used to being the man (Clyde was in Portland, plus he came to Houston and helped Dream to a title - Scottie wasn't the man in Chicago but being the second best player on the double 3-peating champions made life very comfortable for him). Neither one of these guys flourished with CB, but then again Clyde was well past his prime when CB arrived, and Pip will never flourish w/o Superman's cape to hang onto.
Concerning the Stockton 3-ptr I don't know how the thread deteriorated to choosing sides based on who you liked the most. But comments about Stockton's shot make me livid. thecabbage: It was an inbounds play from halfcourt with less than 4 seconds left. Stockton came way out to near halfcourt to get the pass while Malone not only bear-hugged Drexler on a pick but he MOVED WITH HIM starting at new the top of the key and hugging all the way out to 3 pt land. What? was Barkley supposed to immediately leave Malone and run out 30 feet to get Stockton with a 2 point lead, when clearly Drexler decided not to switch. And once he did leave him, he did get to the 3pt line, but Stockton jumped from a yard back. Don't anyone get that play wrong. Drexler was bear-hugged by a moving screen taking away our only chance to contest that shot. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 10, 2000).]
And another thing: We started the season 22-2 Barkley's first year and the year of the Malone crime, until Hakeem started having knee problems and he decided to coast to save himself for the play-offs.
