Dream or Shaq?

Only player in NBA history to have 3000 blocks and 3000 steals. That pretty much says it all. Dream wasn't just a shot blocker, he had the hands of a guard.

I wouldn't even conscede the scoring argument, Shaq may end up with a higher career fg% but his does not have the offensive versatility that Shaq had. And like it or not FT% has to come into the argument how great of a scorer are you when you have to be taken out of offensive possessions at the end of close games?

 

I've made this argument before, but why not again...

If you had to have one stop late in the game without double-teaming, would you rather have Dream guarding Shaq or Shaq guarding Dream?

If you had to have two points late in the game and you knew the other team was not going to double-team the post, would you rather have Dream going against Shaq or Shaq going against Dream?

Not. Close.

 

Hakeem had more skills, and was quicker, so he can be on both parts of the court very quickly.

And remember the commercial:

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31 dead men walking...

 

I picked Shaq. That's not because I hate Dream, that's my answer to an idiot poll.

 

Why reduce it to those questions? This scenario should suffice: If you could have one of the two (Hakeem at his peak versus Shaq at his peak) as your starting center in a game 7, knowing nothing about the teammates or opponents, who would you take?

 

You are a part of the Re-bull Illiance and a traitor...

 

It's okay, we all make mistakes sometimes.

Sorry you had to miss out on the million dollars though.

 

This scenario makes it even easier for me. At their peaks, the two best players I have witnessed in the NBA so far have been Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon. Other than Jordan, I have never seen one player dominate the playoffs as Hakeem did in 94 and 95.

At his peak Hakeem swept all the individual awards of the 94 season (regular season MVP, Playoffs MVP, Defensive player of the year, Championship) becoming the only player in NBA history to do so.

In those 2 years, and especially in 95 he went on to win several successful elimination/closeout games. Hakeem has had a much better winning % in those situations compared to Shaq.

Also, in those 2 years he dominated other centers/PFs, some of the best the NBA had to offer.

a) His complete and utter dominance over David Robinson in 95 playoffs is legendary. As I said, the only other player I have ever seen dominate in such fashion is Jordan. Hakeem absolutely destroyed another one of the best centers to ever play the game.

b) He held Patrick Ewing to 37% or so shooting in 7 game series while pretty single handedly guarding him. On the other hand, neither Ewing, nor constant physical beat up defense of Mason, Smith, or Oakley could drop his FG% below 50. Ewing was clearly outplayed. This was critical because Knicks back court had severely outplayed Rockets back court.

c) Other players FC players he had outplayed during those 2 years include Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Shaq himself.

During those 2 years, Hakeem dominated the best NBA had to offer and the best of those 2 years included wins in closeout/elimination games against some of the best to ever play in the NBA.

Another thing. If you are going in a game 7 without knowing the players according to your scenario, this actually helps Hakeem based on what we have seen so far. Hakeem has proven that he can win championship without another superstar player playing besides him. Shaq cannot claim the same.




I posted this in another thread as a response to someone who would pick Shaq over Dream. I will just post it again....

[If you pick Shaq] you would be going in with a lot of liabilities. With Shaq you would have to live with...

a) FT shooting liability. If I am going in a game 7 without knowing my teammates/opposition, this becomes even more critical. What if my team does not have a Kobe or Wade to cover for Shaq in closing moments?
b) Lesser versatility on offense.
c) Defensive liabilities on pick and roll

Hakeem gives you none of those liabilities. Hakeem gives you just as effective offense with the benefit of it being more versatile while he gives you a significantly better defense. He gives you a solid FT%. He gives you pick and roll defense. And he gives you steals from the center spot.


So what advantages do you get by picking Shaq over Hakeem?


With Kobe playing besides Hakeem I see just as many rings for Lakers, maybe even more. I don't see the 2 rings for Rockets if you replace Hakeem with Shaq. Why? Because he had liabilities which took other great players on his team to cover. Rocket teams had very good/excellent role players but they had no other superstar the caliber of Kobe or Wade which could support Shaq.

People seem to forget how Kobe had to finish some of the games for Lakers in the playoffs because Shaq was sitting on bench. Heck, Wade had to practically do everything for his team in the Finals because Dampier was beating up Shaq.

For a case study, lets look at the last second shot by John Starks in Game 6 of 94 NBA Finals. If you think Shaq could go all the way to the 3 point line to cover a pick and roll, get faked on the perimeter and then recover quick enough to block Stark's shot, you are delusional. Shaq is well known around the league as a poor pick and roll defender. I certainly cant be delusional because I have seen Hakeem make that play and I have it on tape to prove it.

So, you can take a prime Shaq, but I will go with Jordan and Horry's pick which is Hakeem.

 

Even if you're being objective, It's not even close. Hakeem was really dominant. I don't know why they say Shaq is the most dominating center. He's probably the strongest and biggest center, and no one can stop his dunks, but I wouldn't say dominant. Hakeem was truly dominant. No other center could stop him when he played. He's the best center to ever play the game. Kareem was great offensively, Russell defensively, but Hakeem was great at both.

 

It kills me to give the nod to MJ over Dream, on the rare times i'll even make that concession,.... BUT THERE AINT NO WAY SHAQ WAS EVER THE CALIBER OF DREAM! Shaq was the most dominant player of his day, but as other have elaborated on... Dream was the complete package! end of story.

 

No kidding, tinman.

As I had said earlier in this thread. Shaq's weaknesses can be exploited by smart teams. Popovich exposed Shaq's inability to hit free throws and his refusal to defend pick and roll. Shaq's FT woes hurt the Suns every single game and was the deciding factor in at least 3 of the games. You cant pin this as Shaq being over prime because these two problems have plagued Shaq through out his career. Shaq should be thankful that he has played with some of the best clutch guards in the league.

 

Hakeem was a better player than Shaq at every point in their careers. Year 1 Hakeem was better than Year 1 Shaq, and so on. I'll admit Shaq is a hall of famer, but when did he beat a comparable center in his prime when it counted? Hakeem, did that. His Rockets beat down every major competitor old to young - Kareem, Ewing, Robinson, and Shaq - not to mention the dominant power forwards.

Shaq has never been the scorer, shot blocker or overall defender Hakeem was. Hakeem never played with anyone of prime Kobe Bryant caliber, as Drexler and Barkley were at the end of the line when they joined Hakeem.

17 year careers, effectively, for each.

Shaq 26286 pts - 11933 reb, 2520 blks, 2794 ast, 659 stl, 5441ftm-10376fta
Hakeem 26946 pts - 13748 reb, 3830 blks, 3058 ast, 2162 stl, 5423FTM-7621FTA

Is there ANYTHING in those numbers to suggest Hakeem wasn't a superior player? He made 18(!) fewer FT in 2755(!!!!!) fewer attempts. Everyone always forgets Hakeem's steals. He stole the ball like a point guard, averaging 1.75 STEALS per game for his career. There's 1815 more boards. And then there's the blocks. Ah the blocks - a mere 1310 more for Hakeem.

Shaq will almost certainly pass Hakeem for points. Shaq would have to play 2-4 more years and average 8-10 boards with little injury time to pass Hakeem on rebounds. Everything else is completely out of reach.

So let's see - more points, 1815 more rebounds, devastatingly more blocks, crushingly more steals, and 18 fewer makes in 2755 fewer free throw attempts.

Why is this even a discussion?

 

Come on they are close, but Dream was better as he was great on both ends. In fact the only player that I can say that was ever better than Hakeem was the man in the same draft as him and that was MJ.