Hakeem at his peak is irrelevant. We're talking about college. The very essence of this thread is imagining about the "uncharted territory" of all three. If you didn't know anything about their pro career, which one would you take. I'd take Shaq. Dream didn't have the size or the offense like the other two. Shaq didn't have much touch but could score at will anyway. Yao, if left open, can score from anywhere.
How does it matter who were in the same draft? We are comparing the three of them, not with other players. Would you pick Jordan, Barkley, Stockton, and Malone over Shaq, if he was available in that draft? Without looking at their subsequent years, I'd rank them in order: (1) Shaq (2) Dream (3) Yao. Having known these guys now, I rank them in order: (1) Dream (2) Yao (3) Shaq. Even if Yao never turns out to be as good as Shaq, I'll still prefer him over Shaq because I just don't like Shaq.
Bah. It's impossible to dissemble and pretend that you can go back w/o all the history on your mind. And the original thread certainly didn't assume tab rasa on our parts. IMO, it's not interesting to ask which guy you choose on draft night. That's largely a matter of guess work, minute analysis of technical abilities and physical abilities, and the position of your team at the moment of the draft. You (and nobody else) is really getting into those variables. The question is too complex to answer, phrased how you think of it. However, if you're choosing 1 center w/foreknowledge... then it's an interesting question. You get to choose between what Hakeem brought, what O'Neal brought and might yet bring, and the unique ability that Yao possesses. It's an interesting situation: one is finished, and has achieved all he ever will on the b-ball court, one is just past his prime, but still magnificent... while the other has only begun what could be a magnificent career. You know how they've played regardless of the impossibilities of perfectly analyzing an imaginary draft w/o foreknowledge.
I was just making a comparison. Part of reason that Shaq looked so good was because of lack of competition. Men at Shaq's physique typically develops chronic joint problems quickly. That had to raise doubts on him if not in hindsight. Place your #1 pick on him while other great talents are on board is more of a bet. Therefore, to answer your question, it's not automatically Shaq the No.1 choice if he was in the 1984 draft. I would take Hakeem over Shaq.
Dream For you and all others who underestimate what Dream could do while still in college, I recommend you see a video called "Hakeem The Dream". I was much too young to see Hakeem in these days, but from what I've seen of him from his college days, Hakeem was amazing even then. You also have to remember that he would play pick-up games and outplay NBA players like Moses Malone, one of the best centers in the NBA at the time.
You missed my point apparently. I never insinuated that a dunk or a 15 foot jumper are given a "score on how a field goal is obtained". The threat of how a player tends to score his points, diversity, changes the way the other team will play that player on defense. This is a fact. Shaq has no outside game, thus, if he is standing 15 away from the basket, his man (especially now with a zone defense being leagel) is going to pack it in and camp out in the lane (or in today's NBA, on the edge as not to committ a def 3 sec violation). This makes it more difficult for Shaq's teamates to operate inside. With Hakeem, his man always had to respect his 15 foot jumper, and thus, this was one of the main reasons that players like Elie, Maxwell and Drexler were very effective in the "slasher role" (how many times did we see a drive and dish to Hakeem for a wide open baseline jumper??) And every time he is double and tripled team, its usually within 5 feet of the basket, thus, leaves no operating room in the lane for his teamates. This was exactly my point. Again, offensive diversity opens things up more for ones teamates, especially with regards to high percentage shots close to the basket. And you not being able to recognize that Shaq has a ways to go before he is automatically placed ahead of Hakeem in NBA lore doesn't help your argument. Again, offense isn't everything my friend. Please consider the big difference between the 2 on D. Thats the 1st time on this board that anyone has accused me of being biased towards the Rockets or a homer for that matter. Nice to know that you can made that assumption when you know nothing about me.
That is a walk, btw! Referees let NBA players travel sometimes. The bigger the star, the more they can get away with. Among all players, Shaq travels the most. He also gets away with offensive fouls too. (On the other hand, he also gets hacked without calls) I don't know how effective Shaq could be if they call them by the book?!
I agree that Shaq and Hakeem are a close call. I wouldn't say it's automatic either. But I think Shaq would be a safer pick given his physical abilities. Again, looking back, I wouldn't pick Shaq even over Yao.
Then you don't like winning titles. Houston could've continued with Sampson at C and taken MJ. The Rockets may have actually won that 1986 title or at least extended Boston to 7 games. Once the Lakers were broken up, if the Rockets had built and maintained the right people around MJ, they would've been locks for the 1993 championship as well as the 94 and 95 titles AND beyond. With MJ, I also highly doubt Houston gets canned in the first round from 88-91 and I highly doubt they miss the playoffs altogether in 92.
The Jabbar who once scored 46 points on Akeem in his 17th season? Between Shaq, Yao, Akeem, and Lew, I'll take Lew. Six-time MVP, 6 time champion, 3 time Finals MVP, etc, etc, etc. Kareem's 1976 MPV season: 27.7 ppg, 16.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 4.1 bpg, .527 fg, .703 ft, 82 gms
I don't know, but I have seen Shaq steal the ball midcourt and sprint for uncontested dunks a few times. He sent a game at Orlando to OT with that play. I've also see him dribble full court thru pressure and dunk. He just recently did it in the Spurs series. I've also seen him crossover other centers with the greatest of ease a few times. Shaq's game-winning block/strip of Cat Mobley in the 99 first rd (Gm1) was a Hakeem quality move because Shaq had to chase him down and block it across his own body - nothing but ball. I couldn't see Ewing or another "good" C being that agile.
I see your point here. Still, I think that most of the people here would take Dream over Jordan. Looking at the team they had, the Twin Towers approach was a good idea since they already had a post presence. Jordan needs the ball in his hands to be effective, especially in those early years. There's no way he would defer to Ralph Sampson (who was starting to get weak in the knees already). Think about it like this: everyone complains about SF and Cat not getting the ball to Yao; this would be the same situation. Are we talking about the crossover he made on Brad Miller in the All-Star Game? Yeah, cuz that was pretty smooth for a big man. Dream dribbled the ball rather well too, but he knew he didn't have to crossover. He just needed to fake the living crap out of any opposing center until he was so twisted he didn't know which way was up.
Considering that someone thought highly enough about Bowie to take him 2nd, the MJ side-issue is moot. He wasn't a consensus #1 pick back then. Perhaps he would've been hand he not played for Dean Smith, but I digress... 1. Shaq, 2. Akeem, 3. Yao (distant 3rd) Shaq wins out because of his power (295 as a rookie and a thin-looking 295 at that). I think Shaq's the best proportioned player above 275 ever. Even when he's terribly overweight (like last year), he's built like a tank, unlike Oliver Miller/Duckworth fatty types. He was playing college ball at only 17 years old and he would occasionally have monster games (like 20 rebs and 12 blocks against Hank Gathers and LMU in 1990). You could see the progression of where Shaq was headded more clearly than Akeem's and especially Yao's. As a rookie, Shaq averaged 24 pts and 14 rebs. In his 2nd year, he was already averaging 29.3 ppg.
It matters not. There are too many variables to factor in. Who's already on the roster? What do the division rivals have? Who's on your coaching staff to develop the talent? What kind of distractions are there? Etc. etc. etc. There's no guarantee that any of those guys would turn out the way they did again.
I was thinking more of Shawn Bradley and Jerome James. Granted, the quality of opponent is bad, but the moves were smooth as hell for a 350 lb C and they were about as effective in dusting them as a UTEP 2 step. I'm not doubting Hak's mobility. He was a gazelle. I'm also not saying Shaq was nearly as agile. Physics didn't allow for it. Hakeem was almost lanky in comparison to Shaq. I would call Shaq the Hakeem of 350 pounders.
