Okay, Russell was somewhat of a complete player, but a <b>true</b> defintion of a complete player is someone who could carry a defense <b>and</b> carry an offense. If Russell didn't play with so many spectacular offensive players throughout his career there's no way he was carrying an offense. That's what I think makes Hakeem so good, because he was able to dominate in both directions, he wasn't going to need as much additional help from teammates as Russell did. And let's face it, calling Russell a good offensive player is a bit of a stretch. I mean the guys career field goal % was 44%, which is extremely low for a center. Most of points probably came off putbacks which is more of a testament to his rebounding ability than his scoring ability.
I gotta go with the Dream...but very close.. Shaq is big and strong and very dominant, and has improved as much as you could expect from him(except the FT's, which hinders Shaq because if he hit even 65%, I would put him #1). Also, he has been on the superior teams in the last couple of years. Could Shaq have won all 3 without Kobe? Could he have made it to the finals with out Kobe? Would they have made it to the '02 finals without Big Shot Rob's killer at the buzzer of Game 4? Could they have made it to the semi-finals all of those years just on Shaq's back alone? Maybe.. Now all of this is pure speculation, which makes this topic that much more fun. But if I had to start a franchise, between the 3, I would have to start with Olajuwon. He had less to work with after their '86 finals appearance than Shaq has in Orlando and L.A. Yao gets an incomplete until a couple more years. Still young at 22, still learning the american style of play, he may have us gawking in awe when he hits his prime. I am very excited that Ewing is on board with us. Dream may have mopped the floor with him on countless occasions, but the man was a good quality center and will make Yao's progression as a dominant center both faster and better.
With all respect codell, its not about the presentation but execution. Players arent given a score on how a field goal is obtained. just as long as the job gets done. When you have combination of power, finesse and speed ( for someone 340lbs. ) you dont need many other moves. Everytime Shaq touches the ball he is at least doubled/tripled teamed. For the record, overall, I think Shaq and Hakeem are in the same class and its hard to rank one over the other without arguement. [/B][/QUOTE] I dissagree but everyone is entitled to an opinion. You being a die-hard rocket fans doesnt help your argument. Being biased is only a reaction. Shaq is an ENTIRE team. You compliment SHaq with an above average 2-guard and a couple of role players. You'll be a dominant team. [/B] I'm not a lakers fan of any sort nor am I a SHaq fan. I'm anything but a lakers fan. I'm just giving credit where its DUE. [/B]
Funny, I don't remember Shaq winning anything until Kobe came along. And before that there was Penny, who was one of the best guards in the league at the time. I don't think Shaq wins anything without Kobe.
Dream won two Championships without a Kobe Bryant type sidekick we had role players surronding him not another superstar even when clyde came Hakeem Could Score Rebound Block Steal and even pass shaq and Yao are good at 4 of those not all 5
would Shawn Bradley be available?? if not, then the Dream, his game had no holes, perfect guy to build a team around.....
You know, I tend to think that 89-90 is probably Olajuwan's best year ever, probably his defensive peak, but that's also the year Patrick Ewing had his freak offensive season and was the first team All-NBA center... Ewing's stats: 28.6 pts, 10.9 rbs, 2.2 assists, 0.95 steals, and 3.99 blocks. I think it was Ewing's best year that leaves people looking at Olajuwan's later stats. To be plain, Hakeem's 89-90 stats seem better to me than Ewing's 89-90 stats, but then again, Ewing had the NY press on his side. dave.
98% of the responses to this thread are answering the WRONG question. Erase everything you know about Shaq in the NBA. Do the same for Hakeem and even Yao. We are talking draft night here. Which one had the MOST potential at that time. Forget about all their accomplishments because that happened later and is irrelevant to this conversation. 'In their prime' is completely out of the question. Somebody bashed me because Hakeem's rookie stats were better than Yao's. THAT'S IRELEVANT. Pre-rookie, here people! As collegians (assuming Yao was in college), which one would you take. I'd take Shaq, Yao and then Dream. Shaq was breaking backboards in college. He was a beast! Yao is different kind of freak of nature and he has tremendous skills to boot. Dream was excellent but he had to rely on natural ability to be successful...especially over those two. If you don't have the will power, work ethic and smarts, then natural ability doesn't buy you squat in the NBA. Plus he was considered very raw in basketball terms...unlike Yao. On paper, Shaq and Yao are obvious choices over Dream...as collegians. I probably would give you a different answer if we asked who's best in their prime, in 1994, in their rookie season, right now, etc. etc. etc. But the question at hand is on draft night.
Here is something to ponder... during the '85-'86 season, when the Rockets wiped out the Showtime Lakers in the WC finals and took the Celtics to 6 games, Hakeem pushed center Ralph Sampson out of his natural position. In his 2nd year Dream was that good. The year before, Ralph was the All-Star MVP on a team that was STACKED. The year before that, Sampson was Rookie of the Year. In '85, Dream and Sampson were the only other duo besides Wilt and Elgin Baylor to average over 20 points and over 10 rebounds a game for the same team. That was Dream's rookie year, when he lost out on Rookie of the Year honors to a guy named Michael Jordan. Dream had a hell of an impact right out of the gate. Since I followed the Cougars for years before Olajuwon got drafted, and got to see a lot of his college games, then of course I would pick him. I don't think it's that big of a contest... but that's my opinion. Shaq is a hell of a good center, but not in the same class as Hakeem. Close, but not as good. Yao hasn't done anything yet but exhibit great potential. He really shouldn't have been on the All-Star team, but since he's a Rocket, I'll take it.
I usually try not to argue with somebody of your intellect, or lack there of. However since I'm in one of those moods, here it goes nevertheless. Why would I care if Yao win or lose a poll (any pathetic poll on a BBS no less), he's not my family and polls are merely opinions with no direct link to facts. Even if polls are that important would I care if he loses 1 out of 100? Secondly, you show absolutely no logic whatsoever. Shaq and Dream have their careers on stats sheets so you know they'll be good and you want to compare him to a rook? If we know on draft that Yao would be nothing more than a bust would you pick him over Shaq. Now if we are told that he would be better than Shaq and Dream combine, how about your perspective now? You think your draft order might change? Who would you pick, Lebron or MJ? All I can say is DUHHHHH.
The question was who you would take on draft night . It is of course unfair to compare two accomplished superstar with a rookie. So to answer the question, you must imagine you never knew what Dream and Shaq had done in the NBA, and compare them as they were right before they had played a single NBA game. All of them had tremendous upside and had rare physical tools. I guess I'd pick Shaq among that bunch because he appeared to be most NBA-ready. Yao was the biggest and had the best skills. But he was the slowest and least athletic, plus all the baggage connected to his China issues. Dream was the best athlete. But he was the smallest and we did not know how much he would be an offensive force in the NBA. Shaq's offensive skills was as raw as Dream's. But due to the combination of his size and athleticism, we could pretty much predict that he would be a beast in the paint at both ends of the floor.
Why do people argue about how stupid the question is? If you don't like it, that go away. No one will miss you. The guys asks an honest question, and wants an honest answer, if you don't like the question, then slowly back away and go to another topic. As for me, I liked the question, and I choose Hakeem over either Shaq or Yao because basketball is supposed to be fun to watch. Watching Shaq play is like watching the fat kid who's in high school playing against a bunch of middle schoolers. The way Hakeem played was art. Pump fakes, a shooting touch, athleticism, and he still finished with power when need be. thanks folks, that's my time,....I'll be here all week.
Since it says draft night, I will address only collegiate/pre-NBA years: 1) Shaq- He was a monster in college. He was fit, he could block shots (much better than he does now, I might add), rebound, and score almost at will. He was a dominant center at the college level. Think about it this way: How scary is a skinnier version of Shaq? That's what he was in college. Though maybe not as athletic as Hakeem or as complete a player, he definitely made up for it with raw POWER. There was/is no denying that he would become a special player. Forget the fact that he has only won rings with Kobe. This is PRE-NBA people! He is ready to bang with the big boys and would probably take the top slot. 2) Dream- He took UH (Phi Slamma Jamma years) to the Final 4 and to the championship game. Sure he had Clyde on that team, but he was a force to be reckoned with. Though still a little raw, he showed NBA scouts flashes of what could be. His defense (shotblocking AND steals) were quite good, though his offense consisted mainly of dunking. Still, if I were a scout, I'd be extremely overjoyed of having such a natural athlete on the squad. I love the Dream, would probably rank him on my all-time top 5 favorite NBA players list. I think Shaq was more NBA-ready, but Dream had the tantalizing appeal of quickness in a big man that is rarely, if ever, seen. Shaq wins by a very slight margin, since I'd stake more on the "sure thing" than on "potential." 3) Yao Ming- I never saw any of the workout clips last season myself, but from what I heard, he could nail the jumper from anywhere on the floor. He could handle himself competently in the post, but could stretch the defense out by taking it to the wings. His passing skills were great, and I think his basketball IQ may be the highest out of all 3 at this stage. He wasn't a monster shotblocker, but being 7'6" means you rarely have to leave the floor as it is. Also, 7'6" means you have first dibs on rebounds. However, his skinniness would cause me some worries, along with his China troubles (exhaustion, will he be forced by China to miss training camp...basically all the things we talk about now). I would not take a risk on Yao if the other two were available.
If I have foresight, I'd probably have to choose Shaq. I still think that, at his very peak, Hakeem was *the* best center I've ever seen. However, it took him longer than O'Neal to get it together (playing w/teammates, etc....). Despite all the criticism of O'Neal's skill, he has a better passing game than Hakeem ever did. However, if O'Neal's better days are finished, then perhaps I'd take Hakeem after all. Very hard to tell. Yao hasn't done nearly enough yet. You don't take uncharted territory, when you also have the option of choosing two of the top 4 centeres ever.
I'd still take Dream on the draft night. Dream won over Jordan, Barkley, Stockton, and Malone all at once on the draft night. The 1984 draft is probably the best draft ever and Dream was cream of the crop. That was how good people regarded him. On the other hand, who did Shaq have to beat out in the '92 draft? Certainly not those who were as good as Jordan and co..
