it's because people equate him to michael vick without watching him play. if you've watched VY play at high school or college, you know his arm is not a problem.
Race plays a role in everything. To say that "race played no role" is absolutely false. What race an important factor? Doubtful. But race definately was involved ...as it always is.
I don't think race played a roll in this one. Vick was the #1 pick, and considered one of the more nobrainer #1 picks. I think Vick's continued questions as an NFL qb hurt VY's standing. Nevermind that Vick didn't have VY's size, timing or touch on his passes, but whatever. I agree. The Bush propoganda machine was the major factor. Pgabriel is correct. VY has one of the top arms of the draft prospects (maybe behind Cutler and Croyle in pure strength, that would have been about it). Definetly NFL caliber and stronger than Leinart's. There is a question about his mechanics and delivery angle, yes, but not strength. I think I agree the spirit of your post. People forget Staubach and Steve Young were great athletes and great runners too, the former had nothing of the passing experience or prepartion that VY had in college. Elway wasn't a shabby athlete either. The idea of a passer-runner or superatheletic QB (white or Black) being a dominant NFL QB is nothing new. As for the Wonderlic, McNabb, McNair and Marino had proved it is irrelevant to NFL quarterbacking. While not in a system like Elway or Steve Young, VY was far ahead in the progression of his passing in terms of touch, accuracy and frequency displayed at the elite college level than Staubach, Vick, McNabb, and McNair. He was a surer thing than most if you looked at the big picture. Too many people got caught in dissecting delivery mechanics and thinking about the system he played for and lost track of the obvious (close to sure thing dominant athlete with great intangebles). Well VY put on the most impressive and dominant college football performances I have seen in my 30+ years of watching, others with a longer history say it goes farther back. But being the best college football player does't mean he will be the best pro football player, though yes it is hard to understand not drafting the most impressive guy in the most important football position.
I'm going to respond to both you and SamFisher since it is the same reply. I have nothing against Vince Young's passing and think he can pass and am glad he is doing well. What I am talking about is REPUTATION. Whether he deservs it or not Vince Young's reputation was as a great runner and athlete. Not as a great passer. I would like to think that I have so much charisma and power that I can influence ESPN what major sports figures reputations are. I don't and am just passing on what his reputation is.
Correct me if I'm wrong here but didn't a bunch of posters go apoplectic when a similar question was asked regarding Harold Ford on another thread?
VY has an excellent arm, but Mike Vick has a cannon. Vick's issues with passing are that he is short as well as lacks touch and timing. I do agree the concerns about Vick ever translating his game enough to be a superbowl winner and him not quite living to expectations have colored VY's expectations. That said I personally think Vick is underrated (he did get Atl to the NFC championship and has a good winning % on an otherwise bad team), though IMO he is a lot less natural quarterback than VY and few questioned he wasn't worth taking the #1 pick on in an excellent draft. I agree, and the REPUTATION was wrong. All you had to do was look at his last year where he threw for 3000 yards and his top rated efficiency. Look at his crazy 69% completion % against opponents with a winning record his senior year. His throwing and running were impeccable in the biggest moments, Matt Leinart even begrudgingly admitted his throwing was on the money. People comparing him more to Mick Vick than the likes of somewhere between Steve Young and McNabb were not paying attention.
I don't remember... Now I take Harold Ford with a grain of salt after talking with my wife's Nashville-based uncle who is critical of the Ford Family Political Machine...
we should ask Merrill Hoge about his motivations. when you criticize a guy for being "hid and not highlighted" after he accounted for about 90% of a team's offense by himself, all reason is out the door.
Here is the thread that this came up in. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=119466&highlight=harold+ford Are posters going to be getting upset that people are accusing others of racism in regard to Vince Young like people were accusing others over racism over Harold Ford?
You made it sound like he had a Rose Bowl performance like Tommie Frazier in 1995. Rather it was the opposite, he showed he could pass too, which is why he was the top QB selected in the draft, regardless of what his rep with the average fan was.
Joe Montana had a great college career at Notre Dame, with one national title, two major bowl victories, and several incredible comeback victories. In his last college game at the Cotton Bowl (back when the Cotton Bowl was still one of the top bowl games), he was suffering from the flu and was taken out of the game in the third quarter due to hypothermia only to return later to lead Notre Dame to victory from a 22 point fourth quarter deficit. Now, here is a guy who accomplished about as much as Vince Young in college, who also played for a major college powerhouse, won 2 major bowl games and a national title, finished his college career with a dramatic comeback victory, and he was white. You'd think he'd be the darling of the NFL draft, right? But it turned out Joe Montana ended up being drafted in the THIRD ROUND (82nd overall)! Every NFL team passed on him at least twice and some three times! Was race a factor here? No, of course not. There were other factors that NFL teams were concerned about like size and strength that led to Montana being such a low draft pick. On the other hand, John Elway had a good college career in terms of statistics but he never won anything on the college level. He did not even make it to a single bowl game. And yet he was drafted number one by the NFL. So was John Elway drafted so high only because he was white? Of course that's not true either. Even though Elway never won anything on the college level, people believed that he would be successful in the NFL because he had many qualities of a good prototypical NFL quarterback. So my points are: 1) Accomplishments in college is not necessarily the most important thing to how a player is perceived by NFL teams and it does not always correlate with how the player is drafted. There have been players of all races who had great college careers and were drafted low. 2) NFL draft is an uncertain thing with lots of hits and misses. Sometimes, their perception of a player works out (e.g. Elway) and sometimes there are wrong. If Vince Young being drafted third overall is an injustice and a mistake, then Joe Montana being drafted 82nd overall is a much greater travesty.
Very good points, but still doesn't explain to me why VY wasn't getting compared to Montana or Elway instead of Randall Cunningham. I don't think race factors in when you evaluate but when you project or label the prospect it does, a stereotype has to be overcome. Montana had the same obstacle the stereotype of not tall enough and not a strong arm. Elway had the good size strong arm going for him. VY had the whole package- combine Montana and Elway. When I watched VY in college- Randall Cunningham never once entered my mind- that's all.
1. Skill Sets -- Vince's skill set and physique is more akin to Randall Cunningham than Montana or Elway 2. Montana and Elway are all-time pro greats; it's a stretch to compare an unproven but great collegiate player to an all-time pro. Even Cunningham labored in obscurity at UNLV, I believe.
Skills sets coming out of college VY was somewhat in between Steve Young and Donovan McNabb, albeit taller and quicker than either. What is not to like about that? And in fact teams did like him. 3rd overall in a great draft, and he was the 1st player chosen by teams open to considering at QB. That said the Texans keeping Carr and not taking Young may end up a lot like Cleveland taking Couch #1 and leaving McNabb at #2 for the Eagles. But I guess to really make it be the same it would be like if McNabb was a Cleveland high school legend and just led Ohio State to an undefeated NC year in the most impresssive modern college performance by a single individual.
Montana was a small QB with little running ability, and had a weak arm. I don't think anyone would compare his game to VY besides in his ability to lead a comeback. I've heard some people compare Elway and VY because of the scrambling and late game magic. Elway had a much stronger arm then VY, but VY has the advantage in running abiliy. People compare VY and Cunningham because they are both tall, black, and very mobile running QB's. Cunningham and VY have the same type of graceful stride when they take off running so they are very comparable. When I see VY I see a mix between Elway and Cunningham. People naturally compare athletes to previous players of the same race. Adam Morrison is the next Larry Bird. Byron Leftwich is the next Duante Culpepper. etc. etc.
It is fair to compare VY as a prospect to Randall Cunningham as a prospect, IF you took Young as a freshman in college with limited evidence for being a QB other than a rare combination of size, atheleticism and arm strength. The END stage VY as a college quarter compares well to any college quarterback who ever played when you consider athleticism, passing, running, efficiency, leadership, raising his game versus the best opponents, etc. I agree. But his arm is more like Steve Young's (good strength and accurate with an arc but not a cannon seding out laser beams) than those guys. VY isn't quite like any other player. Mostly in good ways. He isn't as radically different and was more polished than say Mike Vick, and few questioned Vick as not worth an overall #1 pick based on his upside. I think Vick's struggles, some perceived, some real, hurt VY's standing as a clear cut #1 choice. Despite VY being more similar to other very successfull players like McNabb, McNair, Steve Young, Culpepper, Cunningham--than truly to Vick.
you know why people like Merril Hodge and others 'Texan fans' hate Vince? He's a black qb he's from a poor neighborhood he likes hip hop he's successful people are questioning troy smith, but they are kissing brady quinn's butt. its just racism, people just make excuses for it.
