I don't think VOR should be able to put Ceballos into the draft. Whats to stop me from starting Chris Crawford and Jon Barry halfway through the season so I can submit them to the draft next year? If it were an extended injury situation i could understand, but Marshall was sitting on the bench that whole time behind Ceballos. If VOR pulls this off maybe i will start Barry and Chris next year. WOW MY TEAM KICKS ASS WITH BARRY AND CRAWFORD, IM JUST GOING TO LET IT RIDE. but when its all said and done i dont really give a ****. I only have one draft pick this year so it doesn't affect me, i just think its a bad precedent. ------------------ .,.·^*'´'|'\..........,.·^*'´¯¯¯'`*^·,...,/|'`*^·-, '|.......'|::\......,·'.....,.·:*:·,......'`i:'|.......| '|.......'|:::|.....;.......':,:::,:·.......';:|.......| '|.......|::;i - ·;i'`:,......¯¯.......,·´|::|.......| '|.......'´.......'|'i:::`*:~·.–·~^*'´: :'|::|.......'`*·-, '|........,.-:^:':'\:'`:;:: :: : : : :: ::;·'i::/`':^·.,......`'i '|..,.:'´:::::::::::'\| '`*^~·:–:·~^*'´..'|/:::::::::'`:^:., | '´:;:::::::::;:-·^*'´.....................`'*^·:;-.....:;·' ....`·;:·'´........................................'`^·:;·´
Cat I'm not sure about what I think anymore. The numbers I heard earlier mightbe wrong as Marshall is a sure 14/10 guys starting and not 12/8. Can you give the current full statline of both players? ------------------ The CC.net NBA Sim Board/Homepage
If Marshall is a 14/10 guy, then I think he is clearly better than Ceballos. I don't think it should be allowed to put Ceballos in the draft. And by the way, I think it is unfounded to use the Mavs record to decide which player is better. We all know that record depends on many things, and just because the Mavs lost 1 or 2 games less with Ceballos rather than Marshall doesn't mean that Ceballos is better, or even on par with Marshall. The fact that VOR is going to such extents to keep Marshall tells me he probably thinks Marshall is a better player as well. My $.02 ------------------ CC.NET Sim League Web Page My Team (Sonics) Feeling claustrophobic, like the walls are closing in. Blood stains on my hands, and I don't know where I've been. I'm in trouble for the things I haven't got to yet. I'm chomping at the bit, and my palms are getting wet. Sweating Bullets Runnin', Ravin', Endin', Out.
I say let him do it, I really don't care anymore what anybody does with putting players in the common draft. The difference between Marshall and Ceballos is so minor that it doesn't really matter who he puts up. Wow I almost made it through a post without mentioning Vonteego Cummings... If anyone has a problem with me putting Starks into the common draft, just say so and I'll put one of my CURRENT starters in just so we won't have anymore arguments over these vague rules... ------------------ Beauty, was the allure that brought me close to you, Loneliness, was the bond that made me stick like glue, All fantastic images, they only are apparent, Promoted by desperate hope, That things are somewhere better.
No...I don't think Ceballos should go in ahead of Marshall. I also think, Cat, that you SHOULDN'T solicit others opinions like this anymore...at least not publicly. If you have the final say, make it and be strong and tough about it. If you want some input, talk privately to Heath and anyone else with a lot of experience that you trust. You pit the GM's against one another when you do it this way, and thats going to drive people away and/or make for bad dealings down the road. We all respect you. You're the man here. Make the call and screw what we think. Then let life and the games go on. ------------------
At the moment I found Marshall stats in a thread: Marshall 32 min, 13.6 pts, 10 reb and 2 assist. This is some very good numbers - not 12/8 as I was told - he even brings passing that Ceb certainly do not put on the table. I think it can be argued that Marshall is clearly a better player than Ceballos again, but I leave the decision to you Cat. Compare their current numbers, if they are simular let Ceballos be tossed, if not marshall should go as Ceballos should lose his eligibility. ------------------ The CC.net NBA Sim Board/Homepage
Cat i willl go with your decision on Ceballos. However I think that next Season will be easier since we are going to use top seven. That would have made a big difference to me today. I would have liked to have done a delayed trade with Cliff RObinson butif I did that then I could not have submitted Oakley or Sura to the draft. I would have had to submit Brad Miller and either Cassell KVH or Stackhouse. That would have killed allthe momentum I had worked so hard to get through the trades I made. So in picking up KVH I was forced to trade Cliff Robinson or risk submitting him to the draft and getting nothing for him. By next Seasons rules I could have done a delayed trade with Robinson for picks and submitted Oakley or Sura to the draft. Where it stands now my team is probably more screwed by acquiring a good player(KVH) than if I had just kept some mediocre talent. Sorry to rant here but I needed to get that off my chest. CK ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information. [This message has been edited by Castor27 (edited June 14, 2001).]
Amen to that. You run this sim, Cat. Whatever decisions you make, I will support. The fact is, like BGM said, the rules are vague, and can be interpreted in different ways. You decide which way to interpret it, so we can set a precedent that will be followed from here on out. ------------------ CC.NET Sim League Web Page My Team (Sonics) Feeling claustrophobic, like the walls are closing in. Blood stains on my hands, and I don't know where I've been. I'm in trouble for the things I haven't got to yet. I'm chomping at the bit, and my palms are getting wet. Sweating Bullets Runnin', Ravin', Endin', Out.
Castor- Wow. Take a look at the stats of A.Davis, B.Grant, and D.Fortson. The difference is negligible. Just because I was experimenting with my roster doesnt mean that Fortson is my official 7th man. gettinbranded- Dude, chill. ------------------ The next time I have meat and mashed potatoes, I think I'll put a very large blob of potatoes on my plate with just a little piece of meat. And if someone asks me why i didn't get more meat, ill just say, "Oh, you mean this?" and pull out a big piece of meat from inside the blob of potatoes, where ive hidden it. Good magic trick, huh?
I know Nomar. I was just messing with you. There was a bunch of us in chat and we were laughing at your post because you jumped on those guys and it turns out both players you mentioned were starters. and then to top it off you had Fortson on the bench (I understand the situation). We just thought someone should call you out for that post. I just happened to be the one elected to do it CK ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information.
I agree with everyone here. Especially with the notion that it is your call, cat. And also with rimmy's take that all this could have been solved earlier if VOR had stated his intentions. Really we should all have declared draft possibilities early, or at least clarified questionable guys. Calling guys out now is close to stating that they are cheating, and I'm not ready to say that about anyone here. I am though troubled by the collective attempts to get around this draft by those teams at the top of the league. Not that I would do anything different in their place! Its just that the league in incredibly unbalanced right now as a result of past drafts pillaging the then-unclaimed teams. The real NBA hasn't had 2 seventy win teams in its history - we've got 2 in this league this season (and last season too, right?). Three teams are on pace in our sim to break the all-time record for losses in a season. This draft was supposedly designed to provide 4th and 5th starters to the underprivelaged teams; next year teams will only lose their 8th best players (much lower quality). I'm afraid that a single rookie pick per season will never be enough to make the Nuggets, Suns, or Warriors even mildly competitive. And that's a shame. That's why I think Cat needs to stand firm in policing who is offered up for the draft - it is unrealistic to expect team owners to act against their own self interest for the sake of the league. ------------------ Bingbong was set up, led to an untimely death in the prime of his life for no other reason than pure malice. Things like that do not go unavenged. Sometimes it spills out onto the field of play.
What a surprise, I strongly agree with Sammie's last post! Very well said. ------------------ I have just realized that the stakes are myself I have no other ransom money, nothing to break or barter but my life my spirit measured out, in bits, spread over the roulette table, I recoup what I can nothing else to shove under the nose of the maître de jeu nothing to thrust out the window, no white flag this flesh all I have to offer, to make the play with this immediate head, what it comes up with, my move as we slither over this go board, stepping always (we hope) between the lines
BTW, My drops have changed. I will not be dropping Jerome Williams since I don't have him I will instead drop Charles Oakley my new Starting PF. CK ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information.
I know that I might not be part of the league anymore, but since this issue is why I have decided to leave, I guess I will throw my two cents in, knowing full well, things won't change. In the current system, VOR should be able to submitt anyone on his team. It doesn't matter if he had traded for marshall or not. In fact, the whole hiding of a better player that was traded for is a clear loop hole GMs are using to stock their team. You don't have to look no further than the commish to see the same type of submisson of Hidayet Turkoglu. The guy hasn't played even half of the season, but he is still going into the draft, though lewis is better at the position. The Bottom line is the rules get made up as the season goes along, and weather or not it is an act of collusion, it still hurts owners who are baffled by all of the what if senarios that crop up at this time of the year. ------------------ I am an invisible man. [This message has been edited by kbm (edited June 15, 2001).]
Wow, I thought we had rules about the submitans but if you say that is not the case I guess I will submit Buford and Jones. If in doubt ask The Cat - that is what CriscoKidd did. He asked would he still be able to put up White in the draft if he traded in LaFrentz. The Cat said yes, and had he said no then CK would not have done that trade. That trade didnt even end up even CK's draft submissions as White was supposed to be submitted before that trade. That is the reason some teams can submit a player that has fallen out of starting lineup. With Marshall and Ceballos both have been there all the time, so if Ceballos is found putting up clearly worse numbers than Marshall then Ceballos should not be allowed in. Cat stated clearly that you was supposed to put up 2 starters to the draft (with starters meaning players not having other benched being better at the time they started). He also said that in some cases that could be 2 of the top6 for some teams. VOR is in case saying that he has 7 starters to chose from, with me having 7 is not a problem, it is a problem if Ceballos is putting up worse numbers than Marshall. But this is not my decision to make, I do not know the 2 players exact numbers, and we all should trust The Cat to make the right decision. [This message has been edited by Heath2000 (edited June 15, 2001).]
What happens to KBM's players? I have no sympathy for crybabies who whine when they don't get their way. ------------------
My example on th first page is similar. I went to Cat and asked if it would be within the rules to make my trade with Boville ,involving Cliff Robinson, delayed so I could have Robinson for the season and then trade him and drop Sura or Oakley. He said I would not be able to drop Sura or Oakley because they had not started for me. Therefore I was forced to give up Robinson now for something rather than keep him and risk losing him or another quality player to the draft. I don't like it but them's the rules and I will have to live with that. CK ------------------ CC.Net Sim Homepage For stats, standings and team information.
Actually GB, This is my second post in a thread that has well over 50 posts now. I am not the only one that has had a problem with the draft rules. Maybe you should stick around a little longer before you make a snap judgement on me. Until then, I would advise you to educate yourself to the issue. ------------------ I am an invisible man. [This message has been edited by kbm (edited June 15, 2001).]
