Media narratives also directly effect players pay and legacy. We need to put a stop to the media’s control and put the players in complete control, it’s their game not the media’s.
Again, what makes you think I’m referring to people who are not being misogynist? Answer that question, please. I did no “lumping”. It is factual that there are a bunch of sexist posts in this thread, and I am merely pointing that out as others have. Your defensiveness is unwarranted, unless you are trying to defend those posts.
You wrote that she doesn't have a personal dislike of any particular player. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I dispute this directly -- she does not like Harden. If you dislike his style of play, say it once, or twice a game, and stop indicating the player you like over the former MVP. You mentioned very specific things in that list -- and I don't dispute those things, it's just that you chose to summarize in a way that doesn't clearly indicate her bias and make it seem like there's plenty of room to think she's not biased. To me, she was clearly biased. I can say she tried her best not to be, but she failed in that regard. So you're not overall wrong here, but I don't want to let her get away with this with muddying the waters.
Your right on. She never says anything bad about that white boy in Dallas that plays a very very similar game to Harden. Hmm..would that be considered racist?
I answered your question in the reply: You're CLEARLY not lumping me into the category. Why would I even think I'm in that group when I perceive myself to be out of it? I'm offended with your simplistic categorization, it has nothing to do with me being included/excluded to your list of categories, it has everything to do with you generalizing. I thought we were here to discuss Doris Burke, all people seem to want to discuss is the misogynistic tendencies of some CF members. How about the "troll" category, that's one category I'm totally open to keeping.
I summarized it in the way that makes sense to me, and I explicitly pointed out that she has biases with regards to style of play. As for her alleged personal animus towards our players, I really don't want to get into an argument over it. I think once you take a position that a person has personal grudges against your players, it's impossible to fairly listen and consider what they have to say and it often leads to filthy personal attacks against them like what we're seeing in this thread. So I choose not to believe that unless there is very strong evidence for it. I'm hearing your arguments, and I'm not convinced. We can leave it at that, alright?
I'll ask again: What makes you think I'm including ANYONE in this thread who is NOT being overtly sexist in their remarks? What I wrote is not a generalization. I'm specifically referring to sexist posts, of which there are many examples. If it's not your intention to defend those posts, then I don't see what your problem is.
Yes, and there’s plenty of people in this thread resorting to sexist, misogynist comments, rather than just criticizing her as an announcer. Nobody’s lumping “everyone” into that category, but about one out of every 4 posts in this thread Is specifically targeting her in sexual terms.
Let me get this straight. ... Because I think Doris Burke has a bias against a particular player (Harden), you think: I'm an ignorant simpleton and I'll never change my opinion All these other ******* misogynists jumping on the train is an indicator of a flawed position so therefore you will never consider being even partial to it This is why I told you I'm offended you're categorizing people. You really are doing exactly what I think you're doing. If I take any right wing position, you can't extrapolate it to an extremist like Hitler and then ignore all of it outright. I would think this is elementary logic but so many of you have already done this here. Whatever floats your boat and keeps you happy -- I'm all for it. We're all doing this in leisure, but I believe I'm trying my very best to be open-minded and it's not being rewarded at all.
I'm still cool with Doris but last night was blatant. Not many national broadcasts with that level of bias.
Honestly, having DMs directly to CF mods should solve this problem. I feel bad for the mods, but anonymity I guess feeds into this a lot, and it ruins the fun of anonymity for white hatters.
It would also help in my opinion if the mods or clutch banned the harden haters on this site. Once rockets fans realize that we are all we have, then you will agree with me. Its literally us against the world, we cant afford to have any people hating on our team in our own forum. It wouldnt fly on other forums, why do we allow it here
burke talking to javie reminded me of demi moore and the judge in "a few good men." i object. overruled. i strenuously object!
I expect stronger evidence then what I've seen that she has a personal vendetta against Harden. That's exactly what I said. You are misconstruing it by saying I wouldn't consider changing my opinion. As for whether you will change your opinion, how could I know? I think that once the belief has set in that someone else has a personal grudge, it is difficult to back out of that belief because everything they say is viewed through that prism. That's my view on it. Take it as a general observation on how everyone (including myself) thinks. I didn't mean it as an attack against you.
Thanks -- and I'm just being upfront, not attacking you either. If we care about objective truth, and a lot of people are, I think people can reasonably conclude things. Like Sam telling Frodo, there's some good things worth fighting for, this is what I believe in and I guess a lot of people too. But the thing about it is what are you fighting for. Insensitive remarks is one thing to fight against that I can support. But on this Rockets fan forum, I want to fight against the undue hate that James Harden gets. James Harden does NOT get the credit he deserves. So many just gloss over how good he is to go straight to him drawing fouls and isolating. He's changed drastically, and nobody cares. Doris talked about improved defense for like 5 seconds, for example, and then immediately started making jokes w/ Mark about it as well. It's exactly this kind of garbage that gets me so pissed. I've said this and I'll say it again, Harden has shown that he is a better defender than Dort when he tries. Harden can't try ALL the time because there's no way he can do ALL of this work, he just can't be God. So when you go after Harden like this, it's just all kinds of unfair. You can't point out the bad 3 pt shooting percentage and NOT talk about how the Rockets are still leading the game, or that Harden leads this team in steals. This is how you do a well-balanced commentary if you really treat Harden fairly like you'd treat Chris Paul.
I fully support pushing back vigorously against undue hate. But here’s the thing — if one isn’t careful about identifying what is truly undue hate, and if they see hate when it’s not really there, then they are liable to be guilty of undue hate against people who are just expressing a different point of view. And that form of thinking, to me, is toxic. I agree. And Doris Burke made a very similar point last night. She actually made a comment about how Harden will be more appreciated once his career is over for all the things he does. This is not a remark a hater would make. Reasonable people can differ on how good a defender Harden is. It’s one thing to completely dismiss the positive things he does on D, it’s another to not consider him an elite defender as you want to make him out to be. Not sure what it is you’re expecting. She said positive things as well, but apparently not enough for you.
I don't know what's going on in here, but I could have settled for just a little less love for Lou Dort. Praising the same things with the same words a couple times a quarter might have been justified. Every 60 seconds was a bit too much. There were 10 players on the court at any given time, spice it up a little would ya? You could upload the sound to that game to Youtube with the title "Doris Burke watches Lou Dort play basketball with 9 other guys"
