[Doogie Wolfson] Houston has been calling a lot for Wolves #2 pick

You really missed the obvious example. Dallas has been after Martin for year in his Kings days. And Cuban was surprised and raged when Houston got him so cheaply.

So using Dallas an example to say Martin is overrated is nothing short of absurd. KMart is Cuban's type of player through and through, as Martin has always been a stat geek's wet dream since his early Sacramento days.

 

I think you are probably right. Better EQ and relations with other GM's possibly. The old basketball gm connections.

 

Unless theres a miracle in the next two weeks, the new CBA wont be done by draft day. If the Rockets are over the cap like alot of teams are, then most likely the NBA will be imposing a roll-back of salaries anyways.

If you let the draft pick(Kanter, Jonas V.) sit with the team for the summer and go through training camp, it could be much harder to obtain them through trade.

Of course if Morey doesn't feel that Kanter or Jonas V. are worth the price to pay for a young big with potential then of course he should try and trade for Baron Davis in a later deal to obtain their 2012 pick which I agree with no restrictions is gold.

This deal is given the fact that Kanter is the player that they want as much as Rockets fans on this board want him. If he goes #3, then you can walk from the deal.

 

from DraftExpress.com

i would love to see us take biyombo at 14, he's probably the single player with the most upside, and the description above suggests that we are the perfect team for him and he is the perfect defensive presence for us.

 

I think the #2 for Martin is about what he's really worth. I wouldn't be surprised if they got more than that, though. As far as whether we should pull the trigger on such a deal, it depends on what DM thinks of whom we could get with it. I'm guessing he'd make that trade.

 

Kevin Martin in exchange for the #2 overall pick in most drafts sounds about right. But the 2011 NBA Draft isn't "most drafts" with respect to the caliber of talent available in the top 2 or 3 picks. Derrick Williams is a nice player, but he's not on par with the caliber of PROSPECT typically available at that point in most drafts. For instance, I think Williams would go somewhere in the 6-8 range of a more "top-heavy" draft.

Just look at last year's draft as an example. The #2 pick could have gotten you your choice of DeMarcus Cousins, Evan Turner or Derrick Favors. If all of those kids had stayed in college another year, any one of them would likely be the #1 overall pick.

People need to separate "the #2 pick as a concept" from "the #2 pick in this year's admittedly-skimpy-at-the-top draft."

 

The main reason for trading Martin would be that it guarantees we won't be stuck on 40 wins next year, get a high upside player this year, a high draft pick next year.

You are much more likely to land a Dwight Howard with 2 top 5 picks than any package including Kevin Martin.

 

Martin+Hill+Budinger+#23 for #2+Wesley Johnson and Nikola Pekovic. I think a lot of Derrick Williams but I also think a lot of Wesley Johnson. This #2 would be used for Enes Kanter.


Then Scola+#23+Memphis Obligation+Terrence Williams+Hasheem Thabeet for Monte Ellis+filler.

Kanter/Pekovic
Patterson/Hayes
Wesley Johnson/Lee
Monte Ellis/Lee
Lowry/Dragic

 

I don't think Hayes is coming back. He should go to a title contending team. And I sure wish these trades could happen. lol
And I agree with going for Kanter over Williams. It's hard to find a hard- working big these days. *cough* Thabeet *cough*

 

But it's not Kevin Martin for a generic #2 pick- it's Kevin Martin for the player Morey is targetting. The value of the target is what matters here, not the value of the #2 pick in an average draft.

 

I would rather trade Scola+#23. I know that Minny probably has no interest in Luis, but just using that as example. I love both players, but would much rather lose Scola and it makes no sense.

Although, if you could trade Martin for a potential top 5 pick in 2012, that would be sweet because our pick would also assuredly be a lotto pick. We would lose much more without Kmart. Even with Clee being a good player.

 

Agreed,on most points. One more year for Cousins,would have probably been enough for him to be the number 1,Evan's maybe but less likely, Favors not likely as the other two are better players.

 

You know, maybe they shouldn't trade Martin.

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1. You always have to overpay for draft pick, especially if the player projected at the pick has "potential" no matter how much potential they have.

2. You cannot build a team like Dallas unless you have a Dirk. We do not have a Dirk, so keeping efficient players or what not means little unless you have that player.

3. No one will trade a 2012 draft pick before a new CBA is drafted. Too good a draft. Too much uncertainty about hard/soft cap, extensions, lux tax, exceptions.

Also you have to realize that if Morey makes ANY trade for the #2 or #3 pick. This team is rebuilding. Does not matter if they get Irving, DW, Kanter, or whomever, it will take them at least 2-3 years to develop into an all-star/go-to player. Of course they may have flashes, but no one can expect Blake Griffin like production out of a rookie. That is why his season was so amazing.

Given that the team would be fully rebuilding, it makes no sense to "hold on to" Kevin Martin & Scola. Plus if the position we are drafting for, at #2/#3 is a post player, it makes no sense to have 4 projects/potential players in Thabeet, Hill, Patterson, & the new guy. It sounds all good to have a lot of young players to have competition and grow together and all, but it almost never works. Only 1 or 2 will pan out, and giving up Hill or even Patterson is not the end of the world. Same thing can be said for the wings with Lee/Budinger/Dragic/T-Will(depending on whom you ask).

 

I have no problem with what you're saying. I'm sure you're more or less correct in your evaluation of the players, but what really matters is what DM thinks. If he thinks that Williams, or Valenciunas, or whoever is worth Martin, then he should go for it. It will be interesting.

 

Unfortunately, facts don't back this up.

I can see this misconception due to T-Mac. But that was basically pushed by T-Mac to play with Yao and basically forced Orlando's hand in trading him to Houston. CD gets as much credit for getting T-Mac as Donnie Walsh is for getting Melo. Which is to say no one else really had any chances.

Otherwise, Morey's trades stack up favorably to Dawson's in both quantity and quality. Of course, adjusting the fact that one was the GM for 10 years and the other for only 4.

 

It makes no sense to trade them for less than fair value.

 

I think Morey actually has a good chance this time. Most of the Minnesota trade rumors have been about Houston. That Bulls rumor, i think, has something to do with the Minny rumor. Maybe Morey trying to stack up on picks to appease Minny and to avoid giving up that #14th pick.

 

LOL, Kevin Martin is not worth the number 2 pick
Anyone who thinks so is rick trollin n sick
I'm white t shirt white shoes n blue jeans
The MVP and only player on my team
The females scream cuz I'm the man of they dreams
I representing by my peace and chain, watchin my ring

OH yeah that's right Bima. You call yourself a thug
But you act like a grown man needin a hug
Looking at the ground instead of sayin what's up
To your homeboy Ronny from the 7 0 burbsss

Everytime I say something real here they come
But when I'm fittin in the crowd, they the ones who I dont hear from
Houston has no shot at a top 5 pick if Kmart
Is all they got and it aint no start
Tryna pull out Minny's heart
Even in a weakened class you gotta be sharp