The only evidence I have is the thought that these people will never be satisfied and will never surrender. People think that leaving the region will stop them from targeting us. I say that's incredibly wishful and naive thinking. I'd argue that without military intervention, their attacks will scale upwards. If we give them safe havens and time, their capabilities will increase and everyone will be in greater danger. I wholeheartedly reject the idea that these animals are acting on any rational level whatsoever.
Just to add...attack how? Well, ISIS has chemical weapon research facilities, and they apparently have Syrian and Iraqi scientists with experience. It's hard to make those types of weapons, but ISIS has been achieving things they're not supposed to over and over so it cannot be taken lightly.
Considering they have almost exclusively targeted countries that are actively engaging them, I can't follow you there. Their attacks on their neighbors may scale upwards, however. But that is because they will shift their focus away from the West. Like Sam alluded to, there are greater threats to America at present that we don't seem to be half as concerned with. If some militant religious zealots were taking over Cuba or Mexico, I'd have a different perspective on things.
This kind of silly self loathing and overstatement of our impact on the whole situation is silly. Western Muslims aren't doing anything about a group of people that are murdering their own and giving them a terrible name globally because of ATW.. really? Allah is their God and these guys are doing these terrible deeds in his name on a global stage. This should piss them off royally if this is not consistent with their beliefs about what he wants.
Care to explain why ISIS, in the near term (prior to conquering the Eastern hemisphere or so), would escalate attacks on US soil when we are completely un-involved (or at the very least, not directly involved) in their conflicts? The burden of proof here appears to be on you, because basic logic follows my plan. Unless you subscribe to the "they hate us cause they ain't us" school us foreign policy.
Well true except for the countries they are invading to expand their caliphate but screw those silly people they can just become refugees and migrate to a new area.... oh wait...
This is their war to fight. Not ours. We should judiciously offer aid to sovereign nations to defend themselves, and shelter to those disaffected by such a conflict.
I am sorry, but I just don't see a cease-fire being honored by ISIS. Basic logic tells me that is a ridiculous pipe-dream. ISIS is in Afghanistan killing the Taliban. The Taliban is not involved in Syria. ISIS is in Algeria. The Algerians are not involved in Syria. ISIS is targeting their neighboring Muslim populations as heretics. What the hell do you think they think of the West? Damaging the West is one of their main and most stated goals. That isn't going to change because we pull out. All that will change in the spin the terrorists use to justify further action.
You're mis-representing my argument. It's not a cease fire, it's dis-engagement. And I would not expect ISIS to ever see us as anything less than an enemy and evil. However, ISIS sees a LOT of stuff as an enemy and evil. It pays attention to the squeakiest wheels, so to speak. Which is a very normal human behavior. They're targeting them because they're their next-door neighbors. Why the hell do you think their main and most stated goal is damaging the West? Is it perhaps because they see us as an active combatant (which we very much are and have been for a long time now)? Or are we back to "they hate us cause they ain't us" territory again? There's no basic human behavior pattern or logic that supports the idea that an army, which has declared pretty much 98% of the world as its enemy, will double-down and re-focus its efforts on a specific target over 6000 miles away that has deliberately dis-engaged itself from a conflict.
It's not that they will "re-focus" it's that they will CONTINUE to focus. The idea that ISIS will not keep trying to radicalize American citizens over the internet because we pulled out is asinine. I am done repeating myself over and over again. That's bobbythegreat's shtick.
This is just one thing of many that will not stop by pulling out of the Middle East. I don't think that ISIS communicating with and giving support to American citizens is something to be brushed aside as a non-factor.
You are subject to a misunderstanding if you think that their actions are a reaction. Has Mali, where Islamists just murdered many people, "actively engaged them"? You are probably not aware of this, but they are following, step by step, a master plan by Al Qaeda that is 15 years old, first appeared in written form in 2005 and which is dividing their expansion into 7 three-year phases, all of which have happened precisely as planned. That plan always included terror attacks in European capitals.
Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for that attack, not ISIS, fyi. Do you have any reference material re: AQ/ISIS plan linkage? They don't appear to be operating off the same playbook, honestly.
Al-Baghdadi of course knew about the 20-year plan and hijacked it. http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151116/1030172214/alqaeda-strategy-plan-book-prediction.html I don't know about the source site, before anyone attacks the source. But the 20-year, 7-step plan has been reported in serious German media for years. Just google 20-year 7-step Islamist plan and you will find plenty of sources, including some that detail how attacking European capitals has always been part of their plan. It is a mistake to think that they think like we do, and that their attacks are "just a reaction to what the evil West did to them". They are not a reaction. They have wanted to fight us, and they will continue to fight us, and the more you let them strengthen their base in their stronghold, the more they will come at us. We have unfortunately no other choice but to take them on militarily as well. You are right that that will not eradicate radical Islam as a whole, but they are a concrete military threat that needs to be eradicated. Inaction or mere half-assed containment will make things worse.
You are too dense to understand the point. Really too dense. You just don't get it. Self-loathing? That's what people who want to slap labels on others instead of thinking claim. "Oh, well I don't want to see their point so I will just say they hate themselves!" Until you address the killing of innocent Muslims by the west without any reaction or care, and the general anti-Muslim sentiment in the west, nothing is going to happen. The west doesn't care about Muslims, and yet you ask Muslims to care about the west.
You traitor!! We're Americans for God's sake and therefore we always genuinely care about everyone in the world. At times we have to be a bit strict with the uncivilized cultures and countries, but we do that out of the love that a concerned father might have toward a wayward child.
Attacking high profile targets always seemed to be part of the plan to goad the West into war. Something we have obliged with, to no real benefit. I'm not making that argument. You're not going to find another poster on this BBS that understands their motivations are grounded in theology more than anything. I'm under no illusion that their behaviors are defensive in nature and haven't cast blame or characterization of "evilness" to the West. I understand that they want to fight us, but they also want to fight 98% of the world's population, and we've done a very good job of making ourselves a specific and high profile target. Switch the USA with China in terms of Middle Eastern geo-politics, and the actions play out the same way with different nouns. I'd prefer the United States play as little role in this as possible, as I don't see it being 1) a significant threat yet and 2) the United States' problem to handle. Prepare to chop the heads off that Hydra forever, then. The only way to end militant religiosity is to end religiosity as a whole, and the only way you can do that is by educating people and lifting them out of poverty. It's not the sexiest or fastest solution, but it's the only proven one. (And before anyone tells me that AQ/ISIS is full of doctors and lawyers, these exceptions to the rule are always going to exist, but you can't let that stop you from continuing to work towards the goal) In the near-term I agree, but I'd rather someone else get their d**ks wet for once.
