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Don't Give ISIS What It Wants.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Here is a good article from some of the leading realists about how to get as much peace as possible and deal with ISIS and the problems of fundamentalist terrorism coming from that part of the world.
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/16...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
    ******
    When a shocking event like the Paris attacks occurs...we must respond with our heads and not just our hearts.

    Here are five lessons to bear in mind as we reassess the dangers and search for an effective response.

    No. 1: Keep the threat in perspective.

    The deaths in Paris last Friday, Nov. 13, are tragic, but these and similar incidents pale in comparison with the carnage and inhumanity Europe suffered from either 1914 to 1918 or 1939 to 1945. For all its current troubles, Europe today is richer, freer, safer, more open, more equal, ... The City of Light will be here and thriving long after those who ordered these attacks are gone and mostly forgotten.

    No. 2: Accept that 100 percent security is not possible.

    Even strong authoritarian states such as Russia and China have experienced large-scale terrorist violence, which tells you that stricter police-state methods wouldn’t eliminate the problem. Regrettably, events such as the Paris attacks will remain a recurring feature of 21st-century life. But to repeat: They are not an existential threat.


    No. 3: Defeating extremism requires understanding its origins.

    ...Contrary to the writings of contemporary Islamophobes, jihadi violence is not intrinsic to Islam. ... To blame these attacks on “Islam” is like blaming Christianity for the killings committed by Anders Breivik in Oslo or holding Judaism responsible for Baruch Goldstein’s murderous rampage in Hebron.

    Rather, jihadi terrorism is a political movement based on a minority’s narrow and fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. ... It is also, however, an unfortunate but understandable response to decades (or even centuries) of Western interference in the Middle East, and especially to the policies that have taken the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in the region.

    To acknowledge this fact in no way justifies what happened in Paris, ... At the same time, to pretend that American and European actions have nothing whatsoever to do with this problem is to bury one’s head in the sand and ignore the obvious. To note just one example of the West’s own role in creating this problem: Had the United States refrained from invading Iraq back in 2003, there almost certainly would be no Islamic State today.

    We have to face facts squarely: Decades of misguided U.S. and European policies have left many people in the Arab and Islamic world deeply angry at and resentful toward the West. Those policies include the West’s cozy coddling of various Arab dictators, its blind support for Israel’s brutal policies toward the Palestinians, and its own willingness to wage air campaigns, employ sanctions, or invade Middle Eastern countries whenever it thinks doing so suits its short-term interest. ... Unsurprisingly, among those many angry people are a few — fortunately, only a few — who decide to try to pay back the West for what they regard as illegitimate and murderous interference. ]Their response is morally despicable and will solve nothing, but it should not be all that difficult to fathom.

    Britain, France, Belgium, and other countries used to treat their colonial subjects in brutal and sometimes murderous ways, but the colonized peoples had no way to attack their colonial masters back in the imperial heartland. Today, groups like al Qaeda and the Islamic State can do just that, no matter how many precautions we take. That is the new reality we are now struggling to absorb.

    No. 4. The Islamic State has a strategy. Don’t fall for it.

    the Paris assault appears to be the Islamic State’s response to its recent territorial losses and the slowly growing coalition against it, which includes France. Its leaders are trying to show anti- Islamic State countries that there is a price for trying to take it down.

    The Islamic State also has a long-term strategic objective. It ... If the Islamic State can get France and other countries to crack down on their Muslim citizens and also get the West to reoccupy large swaths of the Middle East, then its false narrative about the West’s deep and intrinsic antipathy to Islam will gain more credence, as will its carefully cultivated image as the staunchest defender of Islam today.

    Our challenge is to defeat that strategy, and step one is not to fall into the obvious trap the Islamic State has set. If we buy into its vision of relentless cultural, religious, and civilizational conflict, we could easily act in ways that make its vision a reality.

    No. 5: Keep calm and carry on.


    The argument goes like this: If the Islamic State ... is now actively organizing attacks in Europe and elsewhere, then all bets are off and any and all measures are warranted. Specifically, let’s round up a “coalition of the willing” and send a new expeditionary force to both Iraq and Syria and aim to kill as many jihadis as possible in the hope of destroying the Islamic State once and for all.

    ... If the United States, France, and its allies launch yet another hastily planned crusade into the Middle East, the Islamic State’s broader message will appear to be vindicated.... Furthermore, the invading forces will not find these areas any easier to govern or pacify than they were when the United States had more the 150,000 troops on the ground.

    Even if the Islamic State itself was utterly destroyed, its ideas would remain potent and some of its cadres would scatter to any number of places in the region. The Islamic State might be gone, but new terrorist groups would surely spring up in this turbulent and troubled region.

    The only long-term remedy to this danger — and remember the solution will never be total — is the restoration of more legitimate and effective state institutions in these regions. But as we have now seen repeatedly, creating the necessary institutions is not something an invading army can do, especially not one as tainted by history as the forces of the West. ... If our post-9/11 track record is any indication, however, we’ll probably do the exact opposite.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Contributing Member

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    I want to give ISIS an H-Bomb.
     
  3. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Contributing Member

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    (and by give, I mean detonate)
     
  4. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    I hope they put the threat up this guy's arse so he can keep it in perspective. Idiot.

    To keep it in perspective you need to add up all deaths to innocent Muslims along with the 129 tragic deaths in Paris and all over the rest of the planet. The threat is so horrific that it is incomprehensible for anyone to say we need to "keep calm and carry on".... I really want to punch this guy in the mouth but I think the only way for an idiot like this to understand is for the terrorist to show up for his morning coffee.
     
  5. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Let ISIS, Assad, and all the other jihadis to kill each other.
     
  6. Anticope

    Anticope Member

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    Um... Keeping calm is the best way to assess and react to just about any situation imaginable. Are you more a fan of the "get emotional and invade another country" foreign policy strategy?
     
  7. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    You're the western equivalent of ISIS.
     
  8. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    "The only long-term remedy to this danger — and remember the solution will never be total — is the restoration of more legitimate and effective state institutions in these regions"

    Sounds easy enough
     
  9. Falcons Talon

    Falcons Talon Contributing Member

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    In Summary

    1. Relax...its not as bad as World War I or II

    2. Shi+ happens.

    3. The west caused it. You really need to understand this.

    4. Don't attack them, even in retaliation. That makes us just like them

    5. Don't worry so much about these events because the more you try to stop them, the more their idea grows.
     
  10. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Contributing Member

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    Last time I checked, I wasn't cutting the clitorises off of baby girls or throwing gay people off of buildings or telling strangers what they can and cannot wear.

    ISIS wants war. ISIS wants death and chaos. I am ready to give it to them.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. bnb

    bnb Contributing Member

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    don't overreact, or don't go in guns-a-blazing is fair enough comment....but when the article says jihadi terrorism is an unfortunate but understandable response...it kind of blows the credibility of the article out of the water.
     
  12. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    You're advocating dropping a weapon of mass destruction and indiscriminately killing everyone in the region including the closeted gays, females who've undergone genital mutalation and anyone else oppressed. That's ****ed up.
     
  13. Baba Booey

    Baba Booey Contributing Member

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    War isn't pretty.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member
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    "Keep calm and carry on" is a phrase invented by the British Ministry of Information, in response to the Nazi takeover of continental Europe, to be used ONLY in the event of a physical German invasion of the British islands.

    But yeah the Nzi that's not commensurate with the threat of ISIS to you and your 2003 Toyota Corolla with the optional sport package and your 40 inch Samsung.

    So please - ignore that advice, go ahead and freak out and act like a total dipsh-t, which is not going to be too difficult I don't think. ISIS approves.
     
  15. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    In short... yes. If you come after me or mine you should pay, and at a level of interest that will insure you never come back.
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member
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    Great stuff. Why don't you provide us with some real life anectdotes of you successfully exacting retribution in real life.

    I can only imagine - Jim in accounting took my sandwich with a "okie rock, DO NOT TOUCH" note on it out of the break room - HIS DOG REGRETTED THAT DECISION WHEN I DROPPED HIM FROM A HELICOPTER LIKE IN SCARFACE
     
  17. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Thankfully, you'll never be able allowed within 10 miles of the Button and a nuclear holocaust will remain your wet dream.
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    So to stop ISIS from hurting and killing all those innocent people, you'll just kill them all yourself. That seems brilliant.
     
  19. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room bucko

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    This article is a shockingly similar, albeit wordier, to what I said in Major's thread.
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Part of me agrees with you and part of me just wants to take a giant **** on ISIS.
    Part of me knows that a lot of these attacks are nothing more than baiting Western powers. They know how powerful of a recruitment tool it is to show western kaffirs 'invading' Muslim lands.
     

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