DOMA: Obama invokes incest and people marrying children

I don't know you or him personally and have nothing personal against either of you. In fact Batman Jones IMO is one of the most interesting posters and one that I would like to meet in real life.

I have a ridiculous utopian belief that hot button issues can be debated civilly. I admit I am not always able to do that but try.

Its good that you take no offense and I apologize if you were chagrined at me coming to your defense. Its not that I didn't think you could handle yourself but we're all just expressing our opinions and I'm expressing mine.

 

The reasoning of the restriction is unimportant; what is at issue is that there are indeed restrictions.

 

there are people on this site who have kids, who have views people find offensive. so its safe to assume they transfer those views to their kids, who will by the way grow up one day and form their own opinions, so its no need to harp on that.

so I really I wouldn't give a damn if he taught his kids to hate blacks, because the history of the world shows us that opinions do change over time, no matter what the previous generation taught

 

Depends on whether or not one of his kids is gay. If not, he's just teaching his kids intolerance and bigotry. If so, he's doing much more serious damage, teaching them not only that other people are wrong but that the kid himself or herself is wrong for being who he or she is.

There are too many suicides among gay kids to mind one's own business on this anymore. And I have a right to my free speech too. Until a moderator tells me I'm not free to exercise it here, I'll keep doing it.

I don't walk up to the mother that's spanking the crap out of her kid in the supermarket though I want to, because it's not my business. This is way more serious than that.

 

This is different than that. I don't like that, but I accept it. This though could be a case of teaching the children to hate themselves. That I don't accept.

 

Interesting take on it. Sounds to me as if you are vaguely implying that there is no need to fight against the teaching of or acting upon discriminatory views.

What a profoundly odd thing for you to say.

 

I know this is directed at Pgabriel but if I can answer for myself. Lets say it was a parent teching his kids to hate Asians. Yes I would disagree with that point of view and would hope that those kids get a different point of view outside of their family and would certainly tell the parent that I strongly disagree with that view and present the reason why I think it is wrong. Accusing them of abusing their kids without knowing more I couldn't say.

There are many things in this society that I strongly don't approve of. For example in another thread I said I found it troubling that a family would threaten to disown a daughter if she got pregnant out of wedlock. Were they abusing her though? I don't know.

We are in an argument about rights and much of this argument is about who has the right to marry whom. That is a right about being able to determine what sort of family we want and if we are to respect that shouldn't we also respect the right to raise that family with the religious and philosophical values we have.

 

what I'm saying is that its no need to get personal on the internet. its not that serious

 

Of course there is a need to fight against views like that but to what ends to we go to fight views like that? Do you respect that parents have a right to impart their views on their children, even if they are unsavory?

If you don't respect that view how far do you go then to interfere in how a child is brought up?

Pgabriel made a point that people change and while parents are very important children will be exposed to a wide variety of viewpoints in their lifetime.

 

wow, I feel like an ass.

my apologies to the board for derailing the thread. This topic should not be about me or how I raise my children. Batman, while I disagree with him, is a well established poster here and I am still a noob.

I have exposed myself to this section too much.

I will just subtract myself from the equation.

carry on.

 

One is clearly physical abuse that you can see happening in here and now while the other is philosophical the consequences of can't be clearly predicted. Why is what you consider philosophical abuse more serious than the physical abuse when the affects of the physical abuse are much more apparent?

On another note if you don't consider a mother physically abusing her kid in the supermarket your business why is someone saying how they raise their kids on the internet your business then?

 

Color me shocked. Are you serious? Let's presume that your absurd standard is correct, that the line between child abuse and simple prejudicial teaching centers solely on whether or not the child hates him/herself.

How simple it is to refute. How many children do you think wondered what was wrong about the colored child who lived at the end of the road? How many do you think questioned what was so different about those dark children they were told not to play with, even though they played the same games, talked the same way, and laughed with apparently the same silliness?

What you are really referring to is shame, batman, a much more insidious form of self-loathing than hatred. Hatred is often thoughtless, a furious outpouring with no real logic behind it, or even necessary. Shame is much more personal.

I remember reading a book in junior high about the southern US during jim crow. (title escapes me) I remember the little white boy in the book. How torn up he was at the end, not understanding what he was supposed to do, not being able to apologize correctly, or justly. Feeling guilty just for doing so.

I don't think landry is a bad guy. I'm not worried about his kids (in a certain context, pgabs' comments are correct). But being prejudiced is what it is.


EDIT: The book was Roll of Thunder, Hear my Cry.

 

All well and good. None of this in any way, shape, or form indemnifies a parent from being challenged regarding those very same views, and the affect they may have on their children, and the world.

Serious business indeed.

 

On the contrary, I appreciate your opinions and would hope you'd continue to defend/articulate your POV.

 

Ahhh yes, America. The place where you can think whatever you want, you just can't teach it to your kids or express it openly because it's a minority opinion. Irony.

 

Nobody's being forced to do, or not do, anything.

Take your martyrdom schtick elsewhere.

 

It goes both ways.

You can teach or express whatever you want, just be prepared for people to call you out as an total douchebag if you act like one.

 

As usual, your flaming eloquence leaves me speechless.

 

rhad:

I don't like parents teaching racial prejudice towards others either and I used to be a lot more adamant about it. But society's largely taken up the slack there: on racism. It's not accepted like it was before. So you won't see anyone proudly proclaiming that they teach their kids its wrong to associate or date outside of their race. Twenty years ago? Sure. Now, no.

If someone did that here, everybody would be up in arms; not just me. rocketsjudoka, who apparently prides himself on finding the exact middle of every single issue and then advocating thusly, would be outraged. KingCheetah might even take a break from his usual, tired snark.

But teach your kids that homosexuality is wrong and nobody complains except me. And, when I do, I'm told to step back. It's all in the timing. There would have been people to tell me the exact same thing if the 1970s version of LL was telling his kids not to date blacks. But in 2009, it's only acceptable to teach that intolerance about gays. That's the difference.

Maybe the "abuse" language is radical. I'm okay with that. I'm a radical.

I don't dislike LL. I think he's probably an alright guy who's stuck in the past on this issue. I'm sniping at him because nobody else is. And because I do really worry about his kids and all kids who are taught this outdated, hateful stuff.

 

I agree that bigoted views should be challenged but the approach always matters.

I totally agree with you and BJ that shame is a terrible thing but the Bible does say to love the sinner and hate the sin. Whose to say that a parent who thinks homosexuality is wrong wouldn't still love a gay child or whose opinion about homosexuality might not change.