1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

D'Ohbama!: If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,585
    Likes Received:
    1,888
    Kinda veered off the road at the end there, Mugabe.
     
  2. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,803
    Likes Received:
    20,461
    Honestly... Obama was wrong, and not everyone who had a health plan will be able to keep it.
     
  3. LonghornFan

    LonghornFan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,718
    Likes Received:
    2,628
    http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/docs-resisting-obamacare/

     
  4. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    This is a bizarre poll. Doctors don't "sign up" for the exchanges or Obamacare. There are no "Obamacare providers". They are just working with the insurers that they've always worked with in the same way they've always worked with them.

    One thing that might make NY unique is that ACA has injected several new competitors in their individual market because their market was so dysfunctional before. So maybe these doctors don't have relationships with the new insurers yet, and what's what they are referring to. But it sounds like the pollster and the responding doctors had no idea how ACA works based on this article.

    And LOL to an email poll. Basically, the definition of non-scientific. Just a bunch of angry doctors venting - most who don't appear to even understand the law themselves.
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,055
    Likes Received:
    15,229
    You're ignoring the whole cost facet that the ACA is trying to address -- cost shifts to the public from uninsured individuals. Sure, some cheapo plan might be sufficient to an individual's needs, but it's only because he's ultimately relying on offloading his costs if something traumatic happens. If all else fails, there's always bankruptcy. It's the public's interest in handling those costs that is now being addressed. And, for the purposes of the public's interest, being underinsured is almost as bad as being uninsured. If we won't allow someone to go uninsured, why would we allow them to be underinsured?
     
  6. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,901
    Likes Received:
    39,882
    Major is spot on. What a ridiculous poll and I would be scared to use the billing departments of those doctors.
     
  7. otis thorpe

    otis thorpe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    13
    did they ever say some plans may be inadequate?
     
  8. Codman

    Codman Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2001
    Messages:
    6,796
    Likes Received:
    11,954
    My name is Basso and my only self-worth is copying and pasting inaccurate information, bolding text,failing to give clever nicknames to politicians and showing anger because my political party continues to lose.
     
  9. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,363
    Likes Received:
    9,291
    Richard Cohen gets rayciss, questions Obama's "competence."

    --
    A question of competence

    By Richard Cohen, Published: October 28

    Where is Casey Stengel when we need him? In 1962, as the manager of the brand new and determinedly hapless New York Mets — 40 wins, 120 losses — he looked up and down his bench one dismal day and wondered, “Can’t anybody here play this game?” That phrase kept coming at me recently as I watched the impressively inept performance of the Obama administration in both foreign and domestic policy. On a given day, this administration makes the ’62 Mets look good.

    This is a surprise — at least to me. If Barack Obama has an image, it is of the infinitely cool, cerebral leader. The man can give a rousing speech, but he is, at heart, a planner and a plodder. Both of his presidential campaigns were exercises in micromanagement — digital all the way. Obama was the better candidate, but he had, by far, the better organization.

    Yet this same man has lately so mishandled both domestic and foreign policy that he is in mortal peril of altering his image. This unsettling and uncharacteristic incompetence became shockingly clear when Obama failed to come to grips with the Syrian civil war. I did not agree with the president’s do-nothing policy, but at least it was both a policy and intellectually coherent. What followed, though, was both intellectually incoherent and pathetically inconsistent — a “red line” that came out of nowhere and then mysteriously evaporated and a missile strike that was threatened and then abandoned. It was a policy so wavering that if Obama were driving, he would be forced to take a breathalyzer.

    The debacle of the Affordable Care Act’s Web site raised similar questions about confidence. This was supposed to be Obama’s Big Deal. The president has other accomplishments — navigating out of the Great Recession was no minor feat — but restoring the status quo does not get your face on Mount Rushmore. It takes achievement, a program — something new and wonderful. The Affordable Care Act was supposed to be it.

    Something went wrong. People could not sign up. Why? Not sure. Who’s at fault? Apparently no one. An act of God. Something that could never have been foreseen. Another president might have had someone in the White House calling every day — no, twice a day — to make sure the program was going to work. But no, it was a shock to everyone, and when the White House rolled out its gigantic cake — maestro, some music please — no one jumped out.

    Pathetic.

    Here, I must mention that bit of theater in which various world leaders wax indignant about their telephone conversations being bugged by the National Security Agency (NSA). This is not Obama’s doing since the program predated his time in office. But the decibel level of the outrage does suggest that in Germany, France, Brazil and elsewhere, Obama’s standing is not what it once was. He and America are no longer held in either awe or respect, and the bugging program, instead of seeming a necessary evil, looks both clumsy and silly. Bugging Angela Merkel’s personal phone — she who once said that when she thinks of Germany she thinks of “well-sealed windows” — puts at risk the poor NSA listener. He must be catatonic by now.

    But the reaction of the bugged has been nothing compared to the bleat of anger coming from the Middle East. The Saudis, who usually whisper their differences, have severely upped the volume and now talk dismissively of Obama and America. They didn’t like the way we washed our hands of Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak, a steadfast and durable ally, and then dealt with the Syrian civil war in such a wobbly fashion. In recent days, the kingdom has rejected a seat on the U.N. Security Council and, in the person of its intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan , has said the U.S.-Saudi relationship is strained. Bandar, a former ambassador to Washington, can hardly be dismissed as anti-American.

    Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, and in the long run Riyadh and Washington were always going to make an odd couple. But the current spat is not about values but about reliability and performance. The Obama administration has botched Syria and, in the Saudi (and Israeli) view, cannot be trusted to deal firmly with Iran. An erratic presidency has made the world a bit less safe.

    History will someday provide perspective and say, possibly, that Syria and Obamacare did not matter. I doubt it. At the least, they help validate the once-frivolous Republican charges of incompetence. A competent president would beware. As Casey Stengel might note, strike three is coming up.


    Read more from Richard Cohen’s archive.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...539e20-3ffa-11e3-a624-41d661b0bb78_print.html
     
  10. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,363
    Likes Received:
    9,291
    <iframe src="http://videos.nymag.com/video/If-You-Like-Your-Plan-Supercut/player?layout=&amp;title_height=24" width="616" height="434" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,363
    Likes Received:
    9,291
    House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer conceded to reporters today that Democrats knew people would not be able to keep their current health care plans under Obamacare and expressed qualified contrition for President Obama’s repeated vows to the contrary.

    “We knew that there would be some policies that would not qualify and therefore people would be required to get more extensive coverage,” Hoyer said in response to a question from National Review.

    Asked by another reporter how repeated statements by Obama to the contrary weren’t “misleading,” Hoyer said “I don’t think the message was wrong. I think the message was accurate. It was not precise enough…[it] should have been caveated with – ‘assuming you have a policy that in fact does do what the bill is designed to do.’”

    Hoyer noted that people losing access to their current plans are mostly in the individual market, which is a small segment of the overall market. He also argued that requiring those plans to follow new mandates and regulations was important for ensuring those plans included “adequate coverage so the public would not have to be on the hook for serious illnesses or other illnesses.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/362484/top-dem-admits-we-knew-jonathan-strong
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,976
    Likes Received:
    2,358
    ouch.

    liberals?
     
  13. otis thorpe

    otis thorpe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    13
    did anyone watch any of the hearings. i caught them in an office. i think i heard kathleen sebelius being asked about this
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,167
    Likes Received:
    48,334
    I heard that part and her reply was that when that statement was made it applied at the time and also was referring to plans that met the standards that were coming.

    Frankly on this one it seems like the Obama and the Admin. screwed up.
     
  15. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,363
    Likes Received:
    9,291
    FTFY.
     
  16. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,363
    Likes Received:
    9,291
    can't vouch for the source, but interesting, and not surprising, if true:

    <iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AqD-nMpsYAY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  17. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    No - the statements were true when they were made (at least the ones prior to March 2010). Anyone who had any health plan was grandfathered in.

    The issue is that carriers routinely kick people off their health plans and put them on new similar ones. So if that happened to you after March 2010, you ended up on a new plan that was no longer grandfathered and therefore would have to change now if you plan didn't meet the standards.

    So the statement was true in that nothing in Obamacare caused people to lose their insurance that they had at the time. But there are other reasons that you might lose that healthcare - and one is that insurers like to keep tinkering with their plans and switching you to new ones.
     
  18. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    18,687
    Likes Received:
    11,734
    not a 'screw up' or 'partial truth' or 'left something out'. It was a flat out lie. 50-80% of people are expected to lose their old plans.
     
  19. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,363
    Likes Received:
    9,291
    they're lousy at coding, but have got thuggery down pat:

    Sources: White House told insurance execs to keep quiet on Obamacare

    (CNN) -- White House officials have pressured insurance industry executives to keep quiet amid mounting criticism over Obamacare's rollout, insurance industry sources told CNN.

    After insurance officials publicly criticized the implementation, White House staffers contacted insurers to express their displeasure, industry insiders said.
    Multiple sources declined to speak publicly about the push back because they fear retribution.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/30/polit...aign=Feed:+rss/cnn_allpolitics+(RSS:+Politics)
     
  20. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2002
    Messages:
    16,596
    Likes Received:
    496
    Where did you get the 50-80% number, out of your a$$?

    The VAST majority of people (that would be more than 50%) get their insurance through their employer or on government plans already, the ACA is not going to change that for any of these people.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-canceled-in-latest-hurdle-for-obamacare.html
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now