how are they coerced? Are their families threatned? If you go up and say, hey, want $100 bucks, all you have to do is fight that guy? That's not coercion. That's the entertainment business. You see, there's this thing called free will. From my standpoint, bumfighting is a way to employ people who aren't working. They are doing society a service.
I am just arguing whether or not there is coercion based on the fact that the bum is hungry. I can agree that BumFight is absolute atrocious, but the act of paying them to fight is not wrong in of itself. I believe the fact that the fights are not regulated and my doubt that bumfight.com would front the bill if someone gets seriously hurt makes it morally reprehensible.
well, that is a good point about being regulated and the safety factor. but I think it's pretty clear that if you agree to get into a fight, you're putting yourself somewhat in harms way. I just don't see how bumfighting is morally reprehensible when it's a voluntary act in which the participants are compensated.
it's not. in fact, it's a service. thank God for the brave and clever men and women of bumfighting.com
I am not playing devil's advocate. I simply can't justify bumfighting being morally wrong because no one rights are being damaged. No one is being forced into anything. So long as the bums are not mentally ill, are over the age of 18, and sign a waiver - I think it's perfectly legitimate. Dog fighting is different because the dogs aren't able to be given a choice.
Coercion implies that a party was in fact forced physically or with authority to perform an action. While the producers are bargaining at a position of strength, the bums certainly have the right to refuse the bargain. Therefore, it is not coercion.
Come on man, I'm even sure you can admit that something like bumfight is done with bad taste. If you have kids, would you want them to watch something like this and learn the values in the video?
bad taste and being morally wrong are two different things though. sure it's bad taste, that doesn't make it worse than dog fighting, which is morally wrong if you are killing dogs or forcing them to do something they don't want. if i had kids, i wouldn't care if they watched it because i'd teach them how to intrepret what they see and experience so it didn't influence their minds. They would laugh at how ridiculous it is.
Morals is a personal value. To me, it is morally wrong to pit vagrants to fight each other without providing regulation or medical attention. If you think the video producer did no wrong, then more power to you. I voted for dogfighting as well because of the extent of damage that dogs do to each other in those fights. However, if bumfight.com ever gets around to having bums knife-fighting, I will gladly change my vote.
stealing is morally wrong. rape is morally wrong. but agreeing to enter into a fight for sport in exchange for money? You aren't being paid to beat someone up - you're being paid to engage in entertainment with another participant. People die in football, and many other sports. Take Skydiving. You actually pay for fun, and put your life at risk. But what makes it ok, people have a choice. In this case, bumfighting is just really distasteful. But that doesn't mean you can ban it. What law is being violated? Where is someone having their rights taken away? You can call the producers sick, but they aren't law breakers. A knife fight would be different since it tantamount to paying someone to murder someone else. But i think that's very different then paying a few bums to fight for the cameras more as a joke than anything serious.
agreed. I don't think the bums are morally wrong in fighting. The fault lies with the producers. I agree with you that people have a choice, but football leagues and skydiving service providers maintain a standard of care for participants. You are confusing the issue of morality and our legal system. I don't think bumfight.com is illegal, otherwise, they would be in much worse legal troubles and they wouldn't be able to sell their videos. On the morality side, you cannot compare this to a sanctioned sports in the US. Every sport maintains a standard of care for its participants, but that is not the case for bumfight. Even you agreed that the standards of regulation and medical care do not even match. If someone gets seriously hurt, I would have no doubt the producers would just walk away. In fact, the wikipedia article states that a vagrant is suing them for injuries sustained during a shoot. I'm not sure it was a joke to the bum that got hurt.
