1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Does Yao in place of Chuck make us better defensively?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by durvasa, Jan 28, 2010.

?

Yao replaces Chuck. Same minutes. Better Defensively?

  1. On the whole, better.

    338 vote(s)
    87.3%
  2. On the whole, worse.

    20 vote(s)
    5.2%
  3. On the whole, about the same.

    29 vote(s)
    7.5%
  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,999
    Likes Received:
    15,462
    Hypothetically, if a healthy Yao replaced Chuck Hayes on the active roster, are we a better or worse defensive team this season as a whole?

    Of course, Yao would likely play more minutes than Chuck has, but suppose for this discussion that Yao plays the same minutes as Chuck does currently.
     
  2. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    14,781
    Likes Received:
    23,347
    Yes he does. There isn't as many easy lay-ups and teams are relegated to shoot more jump shots which is why the past few years we been near the top of opponent FG%. Yao is much better at protecting the paint which is what we need right now. With Chuck, we don't have anyone protecting the paint. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a much better post defender, pick and roll defender, one on one defender than Yao, but the lack of paint protection is what has really killed us in many games this season.
     
  3. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2000
    Messages:
    21,625
    Likes Received:
    6,257
    Chuck hayes is short and small, yao is big and tall.He changes way more shots than hayes.
     
  4. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    Chuck is a better defensive player, Yao has more of a defensive impact, if that makes sense. Height and length are two things Morey undervalues imo.
     
  5. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,100
    Likes Received:
    21,330
    Did Grizzly Adams have a beard?
     
  6. JujuxG

    JujuxG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    5
    It all depend on the team we are playing, if they are more a fast pace team, hayes would help us more, but if the team we are playing is tall and big, Yao would help us more.

    It all depend on the team we are playing, and there are no clear answer to it.
     
  7. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    35,235
    Likes Received:
    24,275
    Do you have any statistical data for our reference?
     
  8. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Your Tweety Bird dance just cost us a run

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,084
    Likes Received:
    1,352
    I went with "about the same". Assuming the same # of minutes as you have stipulated..


    With Yao on the court, we are suspectible against certain C's to the pick-and-roll, as Yao isn't terribly mobile when he "shows" (on the ball-handler). He is also more vulnerable to the face-up type C's on occasion when they try to go around him. Yes, he has gotten better, but these weaknesses are still exploited at times.

    In terms of rebounding, I'd say no change--Chuck's nose for the ball and quickness get as many (more likely more) rebounds than Yao, even if they never played together. (Can't just look at the stats since some of that was accumulated when they've been on the court together)

    Chuck's defensive shortcoming are purely on his height. He is susceptible to being shot on over the top. But he doesn't get bullied or pushed under the hoop due to his strength.

    So really, it's all about interior presence. On this team, Shane and Luis do a solid job of help defense, the team is good at rotating, and everyone takes charges. Yao would help, but Chuck's presence taking more charges than anyone else on drives is being overlooked.


    Summary: Yao helps at blocking shots and defending taller C's, but Chuck's anticipation and ability to take charges on drives somewhat mitigates the lack of blocked shots. Chuck's ability to play the pick and roll better and his ability to play face-up/quicker C's negates the rest of that advantage Yao brought (defending taller C's and "the rest" of the blocked shot advantage). Edge: EVEN
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    10,809
    Likes Received:
    373
    On the whole, better. I was wrong at the beginning of the season when I claimed the defense would not suffer.
     
  10. Depressio

    Depressio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,416
    Likes Received:
    366
    Chuck defends post players better. That's it, though.

    On the whole, Yao's sheer length protects the paint better by far. I don't see how it's even a question, really.
     
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,999
    Likes Received:
    15,462
    That's why I thought this was an interesting question. I created a thread sometime last week on a subjectively rating our player's defense. If you just look at it as adding a bunch of ratings for defensive attributes we value, Chuck subjectively comes out better. He does more things better on the defensive end. But I think Yao has more of an overall impact as a defensive center.

    One statistical model for defensive impact that I like to look at (and is probably as good as any out there, though there are some misses) is the defensive adjusted +/- that you can see at hoopnumbers.com. It estimates how many more points a team will allow per 100 possessions if you switch an average defender with that player.

    http://hoopnumbers.com/allAnalysisV...leaders=False&year=2009optimizedNow_multiYear

    They have two versions describing players from the 2007-2009 seasons. The "time-weighted" version weights the more recent seasons more heavily, while the "equal-weighted" version weights all season the same.

    For equally weighted, Chuck was -6.7 while Yao was -4.6.

    For time-weighted, Yao was -3.7 and Chuck was -3.7.

    To me, this seems to indicate that Chuck's defensive impact has not been nearly as strong more recently, which coincides with him being asked to play more at center. He is still very likely above average, which is impressive considering he's so much smaller than the guys he's usually defending.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,132
    Likes Received:
    13,546
    We went from a pretty good defense the last several years to a pretty porous defense this year. I don't think it was the loss of McGrady that is responsible for the change.
     
  13. Hball

    Hball Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    10
    Of course ...hayes is 6"6 but really Deke in place of Yao makes us better defensively we should bring him out of retirement.
     
  14. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,999
    Likes Received:
    15,462
    It could be a confluence of different factors:

    - Yao is a better defensive center than Chuck
    - Yao played more minutes (less Scola+Landry lineups)
    - Another year removed from the JVG/Thibs era?
    - Rafer is absolutely a better defender than Brooks
    - We're a little younger, less years of experience from key rotation players
    - More new faces means less chemistry
     
  15. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,914
    Our lack of height has been pretty apparent lately, specifically last night. Nene was just shooting right over our guys.

    Chuck is a fantastic stop gap, but he just isnt a starter in the NBA.
     
  16. sammy

    sammy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Messages:
    18,949
    Likes Received:
    3,528
    Can't teach height.
     
  17. mgraye2969

    mgraye2969 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    52
    depends who were playing...Yao is good for clogging up the middle and playing the more stagnent centers but Chuck is better for playing the more finesse centers...I remember Yao used to get torched by players who had an outside jumper...So on the whole, its about EVEN
     
  18. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,999
    Likes Received:
    15,462
    I also think that Yao's got more in his favor than just height. He's also strong and very difficult to back down (basically, only Shaq can do it). His height+strength combination also allows him to absorb contact as players bounce into him on their drives. This allows him to go up straight. If you don't do that, the refs are more likely to call a foul on you. Plus, he's a star, so he gets more respect that way too.
     
  19. abc2007

    abc2007 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    8,303
    Likes Received:
    64
    Is that a question? Horrible poll!
     
  20. jump shooter

    jump shooter Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    5,429
    Likes Received:
    145
    In general, a true shotblocker ie.(Mutombo or a Dalembert) would make even more of a difference than even Yao. Chuck is one of the best on the ball defenders in the league, but he's not a rim protector.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now