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Does the Universe have a limit?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by kingk0ng, Dec 4, 2008.

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  1. rhester

    rhester Member

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    The answer.

    First, the question itself baffles you, me and scientists.
    The real question should be- How can we understand how limited we are with respect to the size of the universe?
    We can mathematically estimate distances. So we try to understand the universe in relation to distance and math.

    That results in estimations, estimating something that is not limited to math or distance.

    We are limited to detection, we detect by estimate over 100 billion galaxies some we estimate to be 14 billion light years by distance, that means the detection of the galaxy by light spectrum took a guess of 14 billion years to travel close enough for detection. But since we only recently had means to use measurements for these distances there is no clear way to know how far we can see into the visible universe, we guess. And since we use math to guess we are confident in our distances. At least as far as it is visible to us.

    Placing distances relative to earth's measurements, light years, miles etc also is restrictive that at the edge of the visible universe we assume things behave as they do where we are located in space. That is about 20 billion things to assume.

    So we believe or estimate a visable universe that is over 30 billion light years in diameter with over 100 billion galaxies. Those are guesses based upon a reference in our own earth system.

    The gods must laugh at us.

    We take ourselves seriously because we use math and distance to actually try to reduce the universe to measurements. It is like we can stand 20 billion light years from here and map a point in the universe.

    The only correct answer to the question is simple, the universe is not limited.

    We are.

    There is no end, and no way for us to understand that.

    My son once ask me to explain eternity.

    I asked him if he could travel to the edge of the universe what would he find? Would there we a wall, a end point where you must stop? Would he find a no trespassing sign?

    After a while he told me he couldn't imagine or understand how the universe would or could end, he said maybe it just keeps going.

    I told him eternity isn't about time at all, it is about not having an end.
    He seemed quite settled to understand that eternity was apart from time measurement and the universe is not limited to our concept of distance.
     
  2. kingk0ng

    kingk0ng Member

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    I love your answer and you are exactly right! IMO I think that humanity, sadly, will never find the answer to this question regarless of how advanced our technology might be. When you think about it we are so insignificant in the univere like if you go to the beach and pick up a piece of sand and in that sand there is a galaxy and in that galaxy is there is a solar system and in that solar system is a planet and that planet is earth.
     
  3. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    Or like...


    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AJOVUF-HaDw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AJOVUF-HaDw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


    And even without fiction it's evident we're small...

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BS88G5WBcfQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BS88G5WBcfQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
    #63 IROC it, Dec 6, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  4. LoveRoxHateJazz

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    To extend on that. Math is the language of the universe. And like numbers, the universe is infinite.
     
  5. OGKashMoney

    OGKashMoney Member

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    Man, I love that show. The last one about sex in space was very crazy. Never thought there would be so much complications w/ reproduction in space.

    I took a class my first semester in undergrad called The Violent Universe and that was one of my favorite classes. The slides and videos she would show was freaking crazy.

    Ever since I started watching the Universe, I have been wanting to go to a planetarium. Can't wait for winter break! :D
     
  6. Steve_Francis_rules

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    On number 4, you couldn't be more wrong. Every planet in the Solar system has a non zero axial tilt. Several planets have tilts that are very close to that of Earth, and for Uranus, it is actually greater than 90 degrees!

    Also, earth's speed in orbiting the Sun is fixed by its position (Kepler's Law, which follows from #1).
     
  7. Steve_Francis_rules

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    I couldn't agree with you more here. My only issue was that, as a theoretical physicist, I get really annoyed when I hear people say something is "only a theory" to dismiss it. Gravity is only a theory, yet I don't see you drifting freely around space.
     
  8. TECH

    TECH Member

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    Which way is UP in space? :p
     
  9. SwoLy-D

    SwoLy-D Member

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    ^ It's the opposite of down, of course, sir... and WTF are your feet at that time? Well.
    Except that you really COULD pick up ALL THE SAND on earth and that would be the end. Your analogy to the "sand" is not even close to what's real out there, IMLSKO. There's endless sand, sir. :eek:
     
    #69 SwoLy-D, Dec 6, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  10. gwatson86

    gwatson86 Member

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    My idea wasn't to dismiss anything that is only theory, just to not present it as fact.

    As for gravity, of course we know that there is some force that is being exerted on us to keep us pinned to this planet just as this planet is locked into its orbit. But it would be very presumptuous to say, "I know that gravity as we describe it is a FACT. That is what's happening."
     
  11. Tree-Mac

    Tree-Mac Member

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    Why does it matter? What good would it bring us with this knowledge? You are a universe. So what if we're all living inside some huge organism that we call our universe? And googles of these organisms live inside yet another organism and so on?

    I used to wonder about these things, but then I figured they're a bunch of nonsense. Anyone could come up with any theory about the size and age of the universe.
     
  12. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    So at what point is the quest for knowledge a waste? Is special relativity pointless? Theories about the universe change the world. Quantum physics is far from fully understood, but has already altered the world in countless ways. Maybe it's cuz I grew up watching Star Trek, but the urge to explore and learn is part of the core human experience imo.
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i knew number 5...i wasn't suggesting that speed was unrelated to its position

    the other i'll have to look into...i thought earth was the only planet tilted...but i haven't visited any others...at least not recently :)
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i'm not sure it's so sad...awe and wonder are good things, too.
     
  15. pmac

    pmac Member

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    Man has to continually create challenges, obstacles, and goals to keep from being bored or you must believe in a higher power. Otherwise, existence is pointless. That part seems pretty simple to me. It sounds kinda sick to say but we like to keep busy until we die.
     
  16. kingk0ng

    kingk0ng Member

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    I am watching Journey to the Edge of the Universe on the National Geographic Channel right now and wow this is some amazing stuff! A black hole that could suck in a star, our whole universe could be inside of a black hole inside another universe!! And I really like how the narrator said the more we learn about the universe the less we know about it.

    The vasness of space is just beyond anything we could imagine. We think our techonology is so advace now but we are not even .1% close to understand the truth about our universe.

    After watching all this shows and learn more about the universe and it massive size I really can't understand how anyone could think that we are the only living intellegent beings in the universe. It is just not possible.
     
  17. kingk0ng

    kingk0ng Member

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    There could be million of civilizations living just in our galaxy alone and who know how many galaxies out there in the universe??
     
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    But can math model the universe in its entirety? If that were possible, would there be a complex universe within a universe just as complex?
     
  19. Tom Bombadillo

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    Nice post....
     
  20. ClutchCityReturns

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    Some interesting bits I remember form the show...

    - It would take the fastest space vehicle 6 billion years to reach the Pinwheel galaxy (I believe this is the one they were exploring at the time of the comment)

    - A quasar can be millions of trillions (yes, millions of trillions) miles wide.

    - A pulsar is so dense that a piece of it the size of a pin head would weigh millions of tons.

    Translation? We are nothing. We know nothing.
     

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