1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Does the U.S. government allow GM to go bankrupt?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by robbie380, Nov 7, 2008.

?

Select 2...Will the U.S. allow GM to go bankrupt? and should they allow it?

  1. Yes, they will ALLOW a GM bankruptcy

    24 vote(s)
    17.1%
  2. No, they will NOT ALLOW a GM bankruptcy

    74 vote(s)
    52.9%
  3. Yes, they should ALLOW a GM bankruptcy

    83 vote(s)
    59.3%
  4. Yes, they should NOT ALLOW a GM bankruptcy

    12 vote(s)
    8.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,585
    Likes Received:
    1,888
    Give the Big Three an anti-trust exemption; figure out some way to change labor laws to get them more leverage against the unions to cut their costs.
     
  2. lpbman

    lpbman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2001
    Messages:
    4,240
    Likes Received:
    816
    I'd rather the government work on making health care more affordable. This will reduce the burden on the automakers considerably. Also, I don't get the poll... Is it asking what the gov will do or should do? I voted they won't let GM go down, but I think they should stay out of it. There are countless examples of how this company has been mismanaged, but in contrast... when Toyota shuts down a production line to save money they keep their employees on and cross train them in other areas of the factory. This makes for a more skilled workforce and is an investment in people where GM would have them sit at home and send out resumes. GM's product line is actually much improved, but they have too much overlap and badge engineering across the board. Pontiac needs to be killed outright, Cadillac's only viable product is the CTS and the awesome new $100,000+ ZR1 Vette couldn't have debuted at a worse time.

    For all the rumblings about the demise of GM, I have a feeling Chrysler is in worse shape. It's just harder to get the complete picture since they went private.
     
  3. BetterThanEver

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    9,931
    Likes Received:
    189
    Does anybody think $50 billion is going to save GM? They have a poor product line up, too many factories, and poor management. They relied on giving cash incentives away to make up for the overproduction of vehicles. Paying your customers to buy your products, instead of cutting production. Does that make sense? They can't compete with cheaper Japanese labor costs.

    None of those problems go away with cash. GM doesn't have a fundamentally sound business.

    They should have reduced their production and product lines, years ago. Instead, they kept trying to maintain their market share and even increase it with a Chrysler merger.
     
  4. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    Because American "capitalism" (sarcasm set to "high") is, as Norm Chomsky put it, designed to privatize profit while socializing risk.

    It's a horrible joke of a system, and has been for a long time.
     
  5. killer instinct

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    1
    Money makes everyone in America a hypocrite doesn't it?

    Don't give it to poor people, just use it to clean up after stupid companies.........
     
  6. BetterThanEver

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    9,931
    Likes Received:
    189
    A ch 11 bankruptcy is not the end of a company. It will protect them from their creditors. The will be able to reorganize their debts, leases, and union contracts like other companies have. Their creditors will be forced to restructure the debt to favor GM.
     
  7. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,870
    Likes Received:
    1,549
    Why save this company? So American's can buy American cars? This is r****ded. Their cars are crap. Just because they can't compete doesn't mean the government should bail them out.
     
  8. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,585
    Likes Received:
    1,888
    A country as big as ours has to be able to grow our own food and build our own transport and machinery. That's probably part of why we will always subsidize agriculture and heavy industry.
     
  9. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,096
    Likes Received:
    3,609
    How does an anti-trust exemption help them?

    They could probably cut their costs more if we had national health care. They say the same car in Detroit costs over $1,000 more than across the river in Canada due to employee health benefits.

    Maybe you want the leverage to reduce union "leverage" and take away their health insurance, too?
     
  10. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    46,892
    Likes Received:
    12,505
    GM will be bailed out but major changes in the way it does business will be forced on it. The insane executive bonuses and crazy salary and benefits paid to union workers must reflect the reality of today's world. GM's shift to alternatively-fueled vehicles must also accelerate and they should become a leader in this area instead of a follower.
     
  11. fmullegun

    fmullegun Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    23
    well the unions had government support during negotiating and the companies knew any type of a lockout would prompt government intervention.


    So they were able to get higher than market benefits.
     
  12. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,096
    Likes Received:
    3,609
    If we can build advanced weaponry, we should be able to build advanced electric cars. Demand that the companies do so. Condition their bailout on doing so.

    Completely fund their program to do so. Place the order for the first 100,000 or so cars to prime the pump. It is a national security and planetary security issue.

    Forget conservative orthodoxy that government should only do big projects that are military oriented.

    I think this is important enough that we borrow to do so.
     
  13. fmullegun

    fmullegun Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    23
    the battery technology for e-cars just isn't here yet. the batteries we have are to heavy, cannot provide the current or capacity we need.

    plus they are all mostly toxic and quite costly.
     
  14. Nice Rollin

    Nice Rollin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,858
    Likes Received:
    321
    wouldnt be bailing them out be..................socialism?
     
  15. fmullegun

    fmullegun Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    23
    it would also be stupid and just delay the real problem.
     
  16. OldManBernie

    OldManBernie Old Fogey

    Joined:
    May 5, 2000
    Messages:
    2,851
    Likes Received:
    221
    QFT... If this doesn't wake up the union in renegotiating their deals with car manufacturers, I don't know what will. The big 3 cannot compete with Toyota and Honda if they are building cars here in the US with cheaper overhead. The gap will only get worse once more and more of these workers go into retirement.
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    76,683
    Likes Received:
    25,924
    i think we will redefine the phrase "real problem" when we see the massive job losses that would come from letting GM hit the tank...on top of all the other job losses we have right now.

    in other times..in another context...i might agree with the, "let it play its course" philosophy. not now.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,441
    Likes Received:
    40,011

    This is just not true.....the lithium ion batteries put throughout the car would be fine, and if you support it with a small gasoline engine to recharge the batteries as you drive when they get low you are good to go.

    First, you don't have to carry the weight of 20 gallons of gasoline around, and the transmission and engine are much smaller as well.

    The car is a lot lighter....the technology is there, the committment has not been.

    DD
     
  19. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6414.html

     
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,077
    Likes Received:
    15,259
    GM sucked as bad in good times as it does now -- probably worse. But, it is the bad times that test a company. If you only let them die in good times, we'll be stuck with a hell of a lot of albatross companies.
     

Share This Page