Does the idea of no God(s) and no afterlife trouble you?

Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are interchangeable:




The kingdom in Christian thought
The idea of God's Kingdom is found most predominately in the New Testament, and specifically the Synoptic Gospels.

The kingdom of God is a term used interchangeably with Kingdom of Heaven in the Synoptic Gospels. Matthew usually uses the term "kingdom of heaven", while Luke and Mark use "kingdom of God". The reason for this is that Matthew's Gospel was addressed to a Jewish audience who would avoid the direct use of the name of God. Mark and Luke addressed their gospels to a Gentile audience who would be unfamiliar with the term "kingdom of heaven".

Some premillennialist interpreters believe that "kingdom of heaven" refers to the millenial kingdom of God, while "kingdom of God" refers to his universal reign. However, most interpreters, including many premillenialists, believe that there is no basis for such a distinction.

Historian H. G. Wells wrote: “This doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven, which was the main teaching of Jesus, and which plays so small a part in the Christian creeds, is certainly one of the most revolutionary doctrines that ever stirred and changed human thought.”

Jesus Seminar scholars have translated the phrase "kingdom of God" as "God's imperial rule" or sometimes "God's domain" to better grasp its sense in today's language.

The Christian understanding of the Kingdom of God encompasses several ideas.

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Present aspect
The Gospels describe Jesus as proclaiming the Kingdom as something that was about to break out at the present moment, and not merely a future reality (see Mark 1:15). The reported activity of Jesus in healing diseases, driving out demons, teaching a new ethic for living and offering a new hope in God to the poor is understood to be a demonstration of that Kingdom.

Jesus treated the subject with great importance, so that in the model prayer he said it should be the second most important subject in prayer (Matthew 6:9,10). The Kingdom of God is referred to 36 times in the book of Matthew alone. Jesus maintained the importance of seeking The Kingdom throughout his ministry (Matthew 6:33; Mark 9:43-47).

The Kingdom of God also refers to the changed state of heart or mind within Christians (see Luke 17:20-21).

Jesus' use of Kingdom of God language contrasted with that of the first century CE Jewish revolutionaries who believed that the Kingdom was a political reality that would come about by the violent overthrow of Roman rule and its replacement by a theocracy.

In Roman Catholic theology, the Kingdom of God can also refer to the Church. Protestants, however, believe that the Church is the instrument by which the Kingdom is manifested, but is not synonymous with the Kingdom itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Heaven

Our modern day concepts of heaven and hell are mostly based on myth and culture.

Hell also exists in the present moment. We have all experienced it.

What is this physical part of you that permanent and last forever?

You can go on living life for "death", Id' rather not. And that doesn't make the Bible or Jesus message a lie. To me it's confirming.

 

Mewogi --

I absolutely believe that the Kingdom of God is about the right now...about the difference in my life with Him. No doubt about that in my mind.

I also believe that Christ is quite descriptive of life after death. And the two are related...but aren't identical.

 

I also stated there is life after death. But I also believe in life before birth. And each moment is a new life. Heaven is there too.

Christians definitely focus on one over the other. We live our lives in forgetfulness, thinking our true life will begin at the time of our death. Why? Fear? I find that very detrimental to living a full life.

The common perception of heaven is that there is this independent, permanent "you" that lasts for ever. We cling to that idea with everything we have. That's the job of the ego and the ego does a good job.

So yes, Heaven is in the past, present, and future. Where are we right now?

 

Christians do, I think, spend too much time talking about eternity as something not now. Christ seems to indicate it's not just after you die...but that you're living within it now.

I understand better what you're saying. Thanks!

 

You are aware that the "marketing" of Christianity was based off similiar stories, holidays, dates that were popular in the Pagan religions of the time?

I have no problem with the concept of death as final, or with the concept of death just as a step of existence...kinda like that movie with Albert Brooks.

 

My opinion: When you die, you're dead.

Carpe Diem

 

Satan is buying a parka, since I agree with 111chase111.

 

Are you the same person now that you were when you were one year old?

What happened to that person? Is he dead? Or just transformed...

Are we not continutations of our ancestors? Do we see ourselves in our children?

Do I ask enough questions?

 

I am not sure that the one year old No Worries would agree or disagree with 111chase111. I have my doubts, since as a one year old I had a fairly limited agenda: eat, sleep, pee, play, poop, etc.

 

I agree with rhester and MadMax regarding the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of Heaven is part of the Kingdom of God, they are not the same. What the Bible tells me is the Kingdom of God is everything you know and love and from here to eternity and back.

There are many parts of the Kingdom of God that are off limits to me simply because I can't comprehend them. However, the Kingdom of Heaven is mankind's gift from their creator, our reward for realizing that we are imperfect and need to repent.

I do get together with some of my friends from time to time and discuss the aspects of the Bible and God's power that we can't understand and comprehend... it's definately a process that you shouldn't get involved with unless you are completely comfortable with your faith.

There are countless statements in the Bible that you could ponder on for years and still never begin to comprehend their complete meanings, but everything we need to know to live a life in Jesus' image is there in plain arabic/latin/greek/english/etc... no guessing needed.

 

MR. MEOWGI- good response

Sometimes I confuse myself.

What I intended was that there is a lot of Bible teaching about a literal place called heaven in the afterlife and a literal place called hell in the afterlife.

I agree with MadMax that the kingdom of God or Heaven is within us when we understand that is the eternal life Jesus Christ gives us. It is in us today and forever.

I was thinking that the original thread dealt more with the place heaven that is a home in the afterlife.

The scripture you used was not speaking of that place in the afterlife and I thought you might look for another scripture to say that heaven is inside us and there is no afterlife.

Clear as mud.

 

Meowgi, maybe I should have been a bit more specific on what I meant when I first replied to the thread.

I am a Christian, I do believe in God and all that ensues with being a Christian. But I don't live my life expecting to go to an eternal afterlife. I'm a scientist too. I know what dying is. I know that once you're dead, that's it. And that's what I look forward to at the end of my life. Nothing more, nothing less - just death. Now, should I die and "I" (I meaning whatever continuation of me there may be) find out that there is an eternal afterlife, I hope that living my life not expecting this said afterlife hasn't completely ruined my chances for being in said afterlife. Basically I don't want to get my hopes up too high.

Now, as for this rigid non-changing "me" perception, I'm not of that opinion at all. In fact, I've read the Thich Nhat Hanh passage many years before, and I completely agree with it. Everything changes, especially us. And it is the future form of me or my consciousness, the continuation of me that I was referring to in my thoughts of an afterlife.

But of course, if there isn't an afterlife, I understand that my next form will be, as RMT puts it, "worm food".

 

Then you are exisiting as part of a worm, and the bird that eats the worm, and the person who sees the bird.

 

I'm down with that. Circle of life baby.

 

I love the D & D.

We got a Buddhist debating the fine points of Biblical scripture with a Christian Pastor.

 

As for whether there's no God or Afterlife.

Well we'll all find out sooner or later.

 

I won't comment on points 1-4 because you specifically reference Christian faith and therefore, by definition, cannot really be argued from a non-Christian point of view.

But point 5 IS refutible. IMO, the existance of human guilt isn't a Matrix like program that was installed by God. People have compassion for selfish reasons. Because they know they woudn't want to be in the same position...they identify with the victim. "Treat others how you would like to be treated." We learn it in gradeschool. It's reinforced with fear tactics like "eye for an eye." As part of humanity, we all fundamentally know that unchecked, anybody can be a victim so we live with basic moral rules that ultimately helps to preserve us all.

Then how do you explain when people do commit crimes? Many people commit moral/legal crimes against each other because they simply cannot identify with the victim. Poor people often steal from rich people without guilt. Look at the story Robinhood which reinforces that its okay if it goes to the poor. You steel from a store and justify it to yourself by saying "who does it hurt?" Americans beat and killed black slaves by saying they were not humans anyway. If you are incapable of identifying with the victim, then in our mind, its okay. That's why people don't like to kill seals but killing a bug is okay. (Seals have big friendly, almost human, eyes. They're cute.)

I don't see human guilt as some inplanted thing to get us to God or saving us from "insane derangement," as you call it.

 

Yes,

It bothers me, if there is nothing else, it makes all of these seem like a big waste of time.

DD™

 

Only in America!

 

Zues tells me when I cross the River Styx, if I am worthy,I will forever enjoy the fruits of the Elysian fields. He said it, I believe it.

And I will continue my existence as a part of the the great cosmological constant, I will be in a different incarnation than I am now, worm sh*t maybe, but no less a part of the greater whole.